rack pdu surge protector

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Rack mountable pdu with surge protector

Can anyone recommend a descent one?

Ive just finished building my self a lab for college and hopefully uni, and ofc after spending about 500 or so quid i want to protect my investment minimum amount of sockets 6


Thanks all :p
 
How about a rackmount decent UPS (APC?) - gives surge protection, sockets, and battery backup to boot
Read manufacturer specification numbers. How many joules does it claim to absorb? A UPS claims to absorb many times less joules than a power strip protector. A UPS is near zero protection. But with numbers just above zero so that naive consumers will recommend it as 100% protection.

What do manufacturer specification numbers say? Only that provides a useful answer.
 
Read manufacturer specification numbers. How many joules does it claim to absorb? A UPS claims to absorb many times less joules than a power strip protector. A UPS is near zero protection. But with numbers just above zero so that naive consumers will recommend it as 100% protection.

What do manufacturer specification numbers say? Only that provides a useful answer.

Yeah if only you could have provided a useful answer yourself.

This isn't about what is more effective at surge protection, it's that UPS do offer surge protection alongside various other benefits that you do not get with a power strip, saying UPS is near zero protection is absolute ********.
 
This isn't about what is more effective at surge protection, it's that UPS do offer surge protection alongside various other benefits that you do not get with a power strip, saying UPS is near zero protection is absolute
Power strip protectors may claim to absorb upwards of a thousand joules. A UPS claims some of the tiniest protection at hundreds of joules. Both are near zero protection numbers. Just enough above zero so that some naive and cheapshot poster can deny reality. And post denials without any useful facts.

A typical UPS has so few joules as to be all but no protection. Only those educated by hearsay and advertising myths say otherwise.

A list of manufacturers that provide useful solutions (especially 'whole house' solutions) does not include APC for obvious reasons - called numbers.
 
Rack PDUs with built in protection don't really exist because they are intended to be connected to a UPS.

So you could plug one of those into a single-port surge protector thing, but I wouldn't waste your time. The only reason to do it would be to be able to claim on the warranty but they are unlikely to be worth the paper they are written on.
 
Power strip protectors may claim to absorb upwards of a thousand joules. A UPS claims some of the tiniest protection at hundreds of joules. Both are near zero protection numbers. Just enough above zero so that some naive and cheapshot poster can deny reality. And post denials without any useful facts.

Proof to any of your rubbish? Why wouldn't a UPS provide surge protection? I assume you know of some dedicated surge suppression I should be using on my 6kW+ UPSes.... or should I just "plug" them into an surge protected power strip??? Get a clue please.

A typical UPS has so few joules as to be all but no protection. Only those educated by hearsay and advertising myths say otherwise.

Must be true... but for anyone else with an ounce of common sense:

Surge protection inside a Power Strip
http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/661-11-power-strip-bar-surge-protection.html

Surge protection inside a UPS
http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/666-19-ups-battery-backup-tear-down.html

Looks like pretty similar hardware to me?


A list of manufacturers that provide useful solutions (especially 'whole house' solutions) does not include APC for obvious reasons - called numbers.

Not sure what you mean by 'whole house' solution? But pretty sure APC's "solutions" for UPSes include everything from something to protect your desktop right up to something to protect your entire site or data centre.

Couldn't possibly do surge suppression on any of them though?

Maybe I also need surge suppression for my Online UPSes? battery output for my devices clearly can't be clean enough???
 
Not sure what you mean by 'whole house' solution? But pretty sure APC's "solutions" for UPSes include everything from something to protect your desktop right up to something to protect your entire site or data centre.
Output from this 120 volt UPS (in battery backup mode) is 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to protection standard in all electronics, that is ideal (not harmful) power. However UPS manufacturers quietly recommend not connecting power strips to that UPS output. Why? Numbers say why. A typically undersized power strip would quickly degrade (become ineffective) - from transients made irrelevant by more robust protection already inside electronics.

Protection on an appliance's power cord is done better inside the appliance. A homeowner's concern is the rare transient that can overwhelm that existing protection. In every facility (including data centers) that cannot have damage, only a 'whole house' solution is implemented. So that protection standard inside equipment is not overwhelmed.

More numbers. How many joules in that UPS? Hundreds? How many joules in that power strip? Pictures only confirm tiny protection in both. Effective protection means hundreds of thousands of joules must dissipate harmlessly. So a 'whole house' solution was used even 100 years ago. Is a routine solution in every telco switching center (CO).

Well one can post denials. Or say, with numbers, how a power strip or UPS makes hundreds of thousands of joules magically disappear. Effective protection means nobody even knew a surge exists. Even the protector is undamaged. That means hard facts with numbers rather than pictures of near zero protector circuits.

Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? An answer defines effective protection. APC does not offer them or discuss them. What also can happen with undersized protectors? Fire.

Anyone who knows surge protection is quite familiar with a well proven 'whole house' solution. Can always say where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. It was that simple even 100 years ago.
 
So to actually answer the OPs question, a rackmount UPS is no worse at being a surge protector than a power strip. Or alternatively, don't bother with a surge protector because they aren't very effective.
 
Or alternatively, don't bother with a surge protector because they aren't very effective.
Not exactly. A device called a surge protector (rack mounted, power strip, UPS) does not even claim to provide that protection. Can sometimes make damage easier. In rare cases, can result in fire. Its specification numbers define near zero protection. Or protection from a type of surge that typically does not do damage.

Instead, earth another and completely different surge protector whose manufacturer numbers define protection even from direct lightning strikes. It remains functional after each surge. And means nobody even knew a surge existed since even that protector would not fail. These proven solutions come from other manufacturers known for better integrity including Keison, Siemens, and ABB.
 
I am at a loss as to what point you're trying to make. Someone asked for recommendations on a rack mount surge protector, a UPS was suggested, and then you decided to tell everyone how bad surge protectors marketed to consumers are.

The guy's protecting £500 of kit, not running a datacentre. From your posting it sounds like you're in the US, we just don't have the same issues with electricity supply that you do. We don't need whole-house surge protection, there's no market for it.
 
Not exactly. A device called a surge protector (rack mounted, power strip, UPS) does not even claim to provide that protection. Can sometimes make damage easier. In rare cases, can result in fire. Its specification numbers define near zero protection. Or protection from a type of surge that typically does not do damage.

Instead, earth another and completely different surge protector whose manufacturer numbers define protection even from direct lightning strikes. It remains functional after each surge. And means nobody even knew a surge existed since even that protector would not fail. These proven solutions come from other manufacturers known for better integrity including Keison, Siemens, and ABB.


Do you sell them for a living or something by chance? having looked at your post history everything you post about is about surge protectors or upses not being any good, and that every device should have a dedicated "proper" surge protector from the afforementioned manufacturers.

Yes maybe manufacturers such as APC/Masterplug etc do spread myths about their surge protectors - but all you are doing is spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. Personally I trust manufacturers and their connected equipment warranty far more than I do you.

To the OP - buy a rackmount ups - they all provide surge protection, as well as protecting you against power loss (e.g. when updating firmware/os etc on your switches) and forget this thread ever existed.

Mods - please lock this thread before it degenerates further
 
To the OP - buy a rackmount ups - they all provide surge protection, as well as protecting you against power loss (e.g. when updating firmware/os etc on your switches) and forget this thread ever existed.
If it does surge protection, then manufacturer specifications are included. No numbers are posted because only hearsay claims that protection. Manufacturer does not.

Only selective reading creates fear; by ignoring what is posted. And from assumptions that repeatedly ignore specification numbers.

Nobody else said a UPS or anything else is crap. A UPS is perfectly good only for what it does. As defined by its manufacturer: temporary and dirty power during a blackout. 'Dirty' because it might be potentially harmful to motorized appliances. And 'dirty' that is perfectly good for appliances with robust internal protection such as electronics.

Effective surge protection for any appliances means a completely different device mounted in a completely different location. So that hundreds of thouands of joules dissipate harmlessly elsewhere. Rack mounted protectors cannot do that. Only claim to protect from one type of surge already made irrelevant by what is inside all electornics. Can it be any simpler? What is inside electronics is already superior to what an expensive rack mounted 'magic box' might do.

That rack mounted solution does not do and does not claim to do protection from surges that typically do damage. A completely different (and tens of times less expensive) solution does that protection. The word 'crap' does not appear where recommendations are based in facts, numbers, and what the manufacturer says it does. Why would anyone become so emotional over facts and numbers they have ignored? Why would anyone use 'crap' instead of citing manufacturer specs?

Armageus has delightfully shared his emotions. But has not posted one fact or spec number to believe what he recommends. Show me the numbers! He can't. They do not exist. However useful and effective soutions from Kieson, ABB, and Siemens do exist.
 
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Please post your recommended product for a UK home to protect it from these surges then.

I maintain that it is a product that isn't necessary in the UK. And I'm not sure what you're on if you think UPS power is dirtier than the mains. My Eaton UPSes hold output voltage within 1v of 230v, and frequency within 0.1Hz of 50. I'd say that's pretty clean.
 
If it does surge protection, then manufacturer specifications are included. No numbers are posted because only hearsay claims that protection. Manufacturer does not.

Since I'm feeding a troll anyway - I checked the APC 2200 I have under my desk at work - Surge Energy Rating: 368 Joules, Full time multi-pole noise filtering : 0.3% IEEE surge let-through : zero clamping response time : meets UL 1449

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SMT2200I&tab=models

Again, I don't know if that's good in the scheme of things, but it certainly means it has surge protection, which you seem to state all UPSes have none? In my eyes if it has some, no matter how basic it is better than none.



As defined by its manufacturer: temporary and dirty power during a blackout. 'Dirty' because it might be potentially harmful to motorized appliances. And 'dirty' that is perfectly good for appliances with robust internal protection such as electronics.

Because all UPSes are stepped wave approximation? If you assume that, then yes I would agree that is 'dirty' power and not great, but spend decent money and you get something with very close to pure sine wave, that is fine to run everything including motors.



Effective surge protection for any appliances means a completely different device mounted in a completely different location. So that hundreds of thouands of joules dissipate harmlessly elsewhere. Rack mounted protectors cannot do that. Only claim to protect from one type of surge already made irrelevant by what is inside all electornics. Can it be any simpler? What is inside electronics is already superior to what an expensive rack mounted 'magic box' might do.

Maybe you get hundreds of thousands of joules where you are, but in the UK power fluctuation is rare - lightning might generate hundreds of thousands of joules, but that's also reasonably uncommon in the UK.

That rack mounted solution does not do and does not claim to do protection from surges that typically do damage. A completely different (and tens of times less expensive) solution does that protection. The word 'crap' does not appear where recommendations are based in facts, numbers, and what the manufacturer says it does. Why would anyone become so emotional over facts and numbers they have ignored? Why would anyone use 'crap' instead of citing manufacturer specs?

The only person spouting 'crap' is you - you avoid the questions, provide cryptic incomplete answers at best. I'm not emotional about facts and numbers - you haven't provided any! I'm emotional over you trolling another thread like some kind of Surge Protection zealot.

Armageus has delightfully shared his emotions. But has not posted one fact or spec number to believe what he recommends. Show me the numbers! He can't. They do not exist.

Whereas you have obviously posted products that have spec sheets, facts or numbers? How many joules do your wonder products protect against - where does it go? which of the the products were they using 100 years ago?

However useful and effective soutions from Kieson, ABB, and Siemens do exist.

Yes and in the UK they are not from what I can see anything that is readily available or installable by normal consumers. You keep harping on about "whole house" solutions - yet all I can see are essentially slightly larger versions of the hardware found in UPSes and power strips anyway?

e.g.
http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...ential/SurgeProtection/CompleteHome/index.htm

These have spec sheets e.g. 20kA nominal discharge current - but don't look like anything a normal person can wire in at home without contacting an electrician in the UK. Although probably doesn't count according to you as it's made by Eaton, not any of your sponsored companies.
 
And I'm not sure what you're on if you think UPS power is dirtier than the mains.
A UPS that outputs square waves will also measure a stable voltage. Is that 'clean'? Of course not. Others demonstrate what a typical UPS outputs. View pictures:
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8540/apcbu650load.jpg

A utility also demonstrates clean power from AC mains (on left) and what happens when that UPS switches to battery:
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-03.asp

Why is UPS power so dirty? First, because dirty UPS power is sufficient for all electronics. Second, a UPS is typically made as cheap as possible. And third, efficiencies increase when not adding additional power absorbing compnents to make a 'cleaner' sine wave.

Of course, if one knows a UPS is cleaner power, then a manufacturer spec number defines 'clean' (ie %THD). First indication of recommendations based in hearsay is an empty and subjective denial - no numbers. Instead, denials are based in feelings. No facts. No numbers.

Armageus does post numbers. An APC claims 368 joules. So it absorbs maybe 123 joules and never more than 245 joules. A destructive surge means it must somehow absorb hundreds of thousands of joules.

Due to protection already inside electronics, a 250 joule surge is converted by its power supply into rock solid, stable, DC voltages. It converts a tiny surge to power its seminconductors. 245 joules protection in that APC is near zero protection. And only from a type of surge that typically does not cause damage. Concern is for a completely different type of surge that actually does damage.

What happens when a surge is a paltry 1000 joules? That tiny surge will damage an undersized protector. A fuse must disconnect its tiny protectors parts as fast as possible to avert a fire. Fire is another problem with grossly undersized protector circuits. Meanwhile that surge remains connected to an appliance that harmlessly absorbs that energy. That converts that surge to power its semiconductors. Better protection is standard inside electronics.

Other numbers also say nothing about protection. For example, UL is about human safety; not about transistor safety. To meet UL1449, a protector circuit must disconnect as fast as possible to not create a fire. To protect human life. UL1449 says nothing about protecting transistors. UL is completely about protecting human life. UL standards are created by the National Fire Protection Association.

My UPS is also marketed as a pure sine wave UPS. It outputs square waves as demonstrated in those pictures. Those square waves and spikes are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. As taught in high school math. They did not lie. They said it outputs pure sine waves. Then hope naive consumers use speculation justified by emotions to assume it is cleaner power.

A square wave output is dirty and ideal power for all electronics. But may be harmful to motorized appliances. It will measure right on voltage. Is still 'dirty' power. And perfectly good for electronics that also means tiny surges are only noise.

Everyone's concern is a rare surge, maybe once every seven years (less often in the UK), that can overwhelm existing protection. Nothing on a power cord claims to protect from that type of surge. Nothing - as demonstrated by specifications provided by Armageus.

I maintain that it is a product that isn't necessary in the UK.
So many if not most who make these recommendations do not even know how protection was accomplished even 100 years ago. These solutions also cost maybe tens of times less money. These products were cited multiple times.
However useful and effective soutions from Kieson, ABB, and Siemens do exist.
These products or similar ones are always found in every facility that cannot have damage. Local (adjacent) protectors are not. In fact, British Telephone wants their protectors up to 50 meters distant from electronics. That separation INCREASES protection.

Eaton (also called Cutler-Hammer) is but one of so many, with superior integrity. Lightning is one example of a surge. Typically 20,000 amps. So one 'whole house' protector (from more responsible companies) implements features not found in or discussed by a UPS, power strip, or rack mounted protector.

First and foremost is a low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to single point earth ground. Second, is a spec number that says it will dissipate even direct lightning strikes (ie hundreds of thousands of joules) harmlessly without damaging a protector. A minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps.

One 'whole house' solution (essential to even protect a furnace, all RCDs, clocks, and an APC UPS) is protection from all types of surges. Typically costs about £1 per protected appliance. Should remain functional for decades. And must have what is essential for every protection system.

Best protection for anything is a hardwire from each wire in every incoming utility cable to earth. However telephone and AC electric would not work. So we do a next best thing. Connect a 'whole house' protector to do what a hardwire would do better.

A proven 'whole house' solution does not claim to absorb a near zero 368 joules. An effective solution, implemented in every nation throughout the world, connects 20,000 amp surges to what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. All four words have major electrical significance: single point earth ground. We have not yet discussed THE most critical component in every effective protection system - the 'art' of protection. Because some are having so much trouble just learning its simple science.

Concepts are based in what Franklin demonstrated in 1752. Effective protection of appliances was first introduced in primary school science.

Kudos to Armageus for trying to provide numbers. Doing so is how to learn from our mistakes. All electronics already contain protection equal or superior to anything that might be attached to its power cord (ie rack mounted box). Concern is a rare surge, typically once every seven years, that may overwhelm that protection. That rare surge is why everyone who cannot have damage (ie nuclear hardened military facilities, rocket launch pads, Orange, BT, munitions dumps, BBC, etc) always implement this 'whole house' solution. Always. So that hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate outside. So that nobody even knew a surge existed.

A soundbyte summarizes what is most important. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. As understood over 100 years ago.
 
Another essay without a single useful suggestion of a product that the OP can purchase which will be approved by yourself.
 
, British Telephone wants their protectors up to 50 meters distant from electronics.

**Telecom

Best protection for anything is a hardwire from each wire in every incoming utility cable to earth.
I thought we had this in the UK anyway?

You still havent clarified if your notions are as applicable in the UK. I too am of the impression you are busy filling this thread with 95% of stuff that really won't affect the OP in their query.


I too am looking for a rack mounted PDU with surge protect so am watching with bated breath
 
I too am looking for a rack mounted PDU with surge protect so am watching with bated breath

To answer this and the original question - only one's I can find are to UK style plugs rather than IEC sockets (e.g. like a more traditional PDU)

both Dynamode (under their LMSData brand) and Lindy make them:-

http://www.lmsdata.com/pages/products/PDU/PDU-6WS-H-SP-1U.html

http://www.lindy.co.uk/networking-c...ted-sockets-horizontal-pdu-with-uk-plug-p7081


The lindy one lists some specs for surge protected for those who have a fascination with numbers :)
 
You still havent clarified if your notions are as applicable in the UK.
If a superior and tens of times less expensive solution is not needed, then a rack mounted protector is clearly for fools who spend massively on something that does nothing.

Electronics already contain significant protection. Why would anyone spend so much on something that does nothing? Or can even make damage easier? Or in rare cases can create a fire? Naive consumers told them they need it. So it must needed?

Take a £4 power strip. Add some ten pence parts. Sell it for £55 as a miracle strip. To do what? Make one feel better?

Monster sold speaker wire with ends marked for amp and speaker. Connect that wire's speaker end to an amp, then sound was perverted. So said Monster and therefore so many naive consumers. Many consumers could even hear a difference if wire was reversed. Monster sold £3 speaker wire for £30. Same applies to that power strip with 'essential' protection. Scams are that easily promoted.

If an obscenely overpriced £55 protector is needed, then a 'whole house' protector is essential for tens of times less money per protected appliance. In some telco facilities, an employee could be fired for installing that power strip due to above listed problems. They take fire serioiusly.

Lindy even admits it is grossly undersized. It disconnects protector parts on a first or second surge. While leaving that surge still connected to appliances. Why would anyone spend so much money on a protector that grossly undersized? Monster is selling speaker wire. You also need that. Better protection is provided by prayer.

Best (safer) is a PDU without any protector parts - if a 'whole house' solution is not earthed to protect it. If a 'whole house' solution is not needed, then clearly that £55 power strip with near zero protection has no useful purpose.
 
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