Radiator Advice please.

Shetlander

Shetlander

Shetlander

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Firstly my setup now -

AMD Opteron 180 @ 2700Mhz 10 hours Prim95 stable.
DFI NF4 board, 2Gb OCZ ram.
Laing DDC1 with Alphacool top and Thermochill HE120.2 with 2 Nexus fans running at 7/9v.

I was running a AMD 4000+ San Diego core on the above but with an Eheim 1048 pump and cooling just the CPU. Temps where never higher than about 43c in a room with ambient temp anywhere from 20 - 30c Radiator had 2 Panaflow 38mm deep fans).

Now, in my search for silence, I have rehomed it all in a Silverstone TJ07 and put in the Opty and waterblock on the Northbridge. Now my idle temps on the CPU are on average core 0 = 28-32c and core 1 = 31-36c. However when running OCCT for 1 hour temps on core 1 hit 62c. (Worried? yes I was).

I think the problem lay with the rad and fan setup and would like to know if it is worth the investment to switch to a Thermochill PA120.3 and see a significant difference or what advice on radiators would people give. Are there any better than the thermochill?
Ive just ordered 2 water temp probes to monitor temp before CPU and just before entering the rad.

Setup due to pipe length and space is res > pump > CPU block > northbridge > rad > res.

Just a thought, do you think I would be OK putting the Panaflo's back on to pull as well as the nexus to push?
 
The PA120.3 is the best you can get.
Don't think it makes a lot of difference but you should go straight fromthe rad to the chip.
 
No need to monitor water temps in more than one place tbh - they won't vary much throughout the loop, maybe only 1 degree. (as above you won't gain much from loop order)

You can get a rough idea from just sticking a probe onto one of the tanks on the rad. That will give you a good enough indication of water temp.

Temps to monitor are air into rad and the water temp. If the difference here is 10 degrees or more you need more cooling (bigger rad). If less than 5 degrees, you wont see much difference tbh.

I see you are running an HE rad that had close fin spacing (not good for slow, quiet fans like a 7v nexus).

Potentially, a PA120.3 can have roughly double the cooling capacity of a HE120.2 (for those slow fans) and I would guess your air/water delta to be higher than 10degC now and that, yes, you will benefit from the upgrade. The thermochill PA120.3 is the best rad and fits nicely in the bottom of the TJ07 (nice case btw :))

Try the panaflow fans as a quick fix, they have considerably more pressure than the nexus and this is key to getting air through those tight HE rads. push/pull - pull/pull either way is good :D
 
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Change your plumbing. Put the radiator before the CPU block to make sure the chip is getting the coolest water.

Pump > Rad > CPU > NB > Res.

Rehousing the system inside a case (depending on where it is and how the fans are oriented) will lead to slightly increased temperatures due to the generally higher ambient temperature within it than without.

The PA120.3 will - as already posted - reduce the temperature delta between the idle/load temperatures and may have a small effect on the idle temperature by itself, but before you go spending money, I'd have a look at what seems (to me) to be the issues in your loop.

Good luck and report back! :)
 
Don't bother replumbing. Waste of time. It will not give you the temp reduction you are after. 1 or 2 degrees at best.

SEE HERE for difference in water in to water out on a 600w loaded 120.3, only 1 degree, your will be way less than that!

Measure the water temp (or rad tank temp) to see how hot and overloaded it is in the current config. [report back with this temp]

Then try fans (faster and also include those 38mm panaflows) [and report back with this temp]

Also include the ambient air into the rad temp on both accounts.

I assume that the rad is currently in the bottom of the case where it gets pretty much good airflow. It might also be worthwhile to push the rad or fans close to the grill so that it sucks air in through the grill rather than recirculating in the bottom chamber. Maybe knock up a makeshift duct or plenum chamber to ensure that it cannot recirculate air.
 
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What water block are you using? i think that could well be the problem, a 120.2 should have no trouble with a CPU and northbridge.
 
jigger said:
What water block are you using? i think that could well be the problem, a 120.2 should have no trouble with a CPU and northbridge.
Click to expand...

Im using a Danger Den TDX block and have considered changing that also but after the expense of changing my case and all the fans and extras such as Alphacool LCD and 2 new optical drives, Im having a hard time trying to convince myself that it would be a worthwhile investment never mind the wife. According to Marci? the combine heatload for my overclocked 180 and the northbridge is approx 208watts.

As for the air flow in the bottom. It is close to one side and if I put my hands over both sides I can feel a very distinct change in air temp. Hopefully my temp sensors will arrive tomorrow and over the weekend I will try various combinations. I might give the Panaflo's a go out of curiosity tonight and see if they make any difference.

Thanks for the replies so far. All help appreciated.
 
Your block is very good for cooling a single core CPU, but not ideal for a dual core CPU.
I had allmost the same system as you (cooling and rig 1x120.3) and went for 2x 120.2 rads and a Swiftech Apogee GT and the temp's came right down with new block and second rad in this config. Pump, rad, cpu, rad, GPU, chipset then res.
 
Ive read so much on CPU blocks and there appears to be a few that will do the job and have a certain amount of upgradeability with them for me. What block would people recommend for both AMD and Intel.

My next upgrade will be in a year or so as my current rig does more than enough for now :rolleyes: (may regret saying that).
 
Shetlander said:
Im using a Danger Den TDX block

According to Marci? the combine heatload for my overclocked 180 and the northbridge is approx 208watts.

Hopefully my temp sensors will arrive tomorrow and over the weekend I will try various combinations.

I might give the Panaflo's a go out of curiosity tonight and see if they make any difference.
Click to expand...

As stated above, the block is not the best, but should be better than what you have - I'd analyse the rad and it's cooling ability 1st

208w is a lot with HE120.2 and 7v fans (the PA120.2 struggles with 150w at 10degC delta and it is more efficient than the HE)

You can do a quick test just by placing your hand on the rad end tanks and see if they feel hot when your cpu is at load and 60+degC. Also you can learn from how quickly the cpu temp rises under load. If it jumps very quickly to 60 and the rad is still cool at that point, the block can be suspect. If it climbs a bit slower (and in proportion to the increase in rad temp) then rad cooling is supect number 1.

Do try the panaflow's as a first test though, as it's easy and free. You'll probably need >1500rpm to get some decent airflow through that rad.

How old is the loop? and has the cpu block been cleaned out of any crud recently? You've had it for years I imagine and they can collect all sorts of gunk inside that can screw up temps over time.

If after all that, you decide that a new block and rad is the way to go (ultimately it will be as you have last gen rad and cpu block) get the thermochill PA120.3 and consider any of the following.

EK supreme
D-tek Fuzion (plus nozzles and washer)
Swiftech apogee (with copper top)
XSPC X20 delta v2

They all have much larger effective cooling area for dual/quad. Chose for price, performance and looks.
 
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***F1ZZY*** said:
Don't bother replumbing. Waste of time. It will not give you the temp reduction you are after. 1 or 2 degrees at best
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Have to agree, I carried out a few tests myself and it made zero difference for me! Pumps like Laing's DDC and D5 have stupidly good power/heat dump ratio's, you need not worry about the pump adding heat to the loop anymore.

In the end I just installed it the way that worked out the best.
 
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The loop is 2-3 weeks old. The block was cleaned and is like new as when I rebuilt my system into the new case I flushed the rad with clear vin and dismantled the block to clean and replaced all the tubing.

Spent last night experimenting with the Panaflo's and they didnt seem to make much difference. Highest temp recorded running OCCT was 55c on core 1. There always seems to be a large difference between core 0 and 1, sometimes, briefly as much as 10c. Is this down to the block not covering both cores adequatly as the consensus seem to be this block is not ideal for dual core cpu's.

The temps jump from say 35c on core 1 to anywhere between 45-50c depending on ambient room temp and then steadilly rise from there. Im thinking that it is a combination of block - not covering CPU very well, radiator - not been able to cope with heatload, and ambient room temp. When I opened the case and felt the res last night it was warm and so was the tubing.

Do they make the Apogee GTX to fit my board or is it solely for skt 775 as I like what Ive read about that as they state its better than the GT. Also the barbs on the GT look a liitle too close for my liking as Im using 1/2 tubing. If I cant get the GTX, I think it will have to be a D Tek Fuzion.

Which would make the biggest initial difference, changing the rad or the block?
 
Hesky82 said:
Have to agree, I carried out a few tests myself and it made zero difference for me! Pumps like Laing's DDC and D5 have stupidly good power/heat dump ratio's, you need not worry about the pump adding heat to the loop anymore.

In the end I just installed it the way that worked out the best.
Click to expand...

Sure, it's a long shot... but as he's thinking of replacing the radiator anyway, why not try to sort out the tubing to see if there is any difference? Rehousing the radiator may have cause kinking of tubes and whatnot (different matter, but hey).

Rather than drop £60 on an apparent fix straight off, why not try somewhat simpler methods first? There's no guarantee the problem will be fixed, but hey...
 
Just been thinking, I dont want to remove the heat spreader but has anybody ever lapped an AMD x2 before? Would it help? Would it help lapping and thining the base of the TDX?

Just thoughts.

As regards kinks, there is none. Its all 1/2" tubing and installed as advised above to keep the pipe legths as short as possible.
 
Shetlander said:
Just been thinking, I dont want to remove the heat spreader but has anybody ever lapped an AMD x2 before? Would it help? Would it help lapping and thining the base of the TDX?

Just thoughts.

As regards kinks, there is none. Its all 1/2" tubing and installed as advised above to keep the pipe legths as short as possible.
Click to expand...


Cool.

Regarding the blocks, I don't know much about the AMD64 series of chips regarding their flatness, but I do know that DangerDen are normally pretty spot on with their finishing (in terms of flatness).
 
I wasnt thinking of its flatness but was wondering if there would be any benefit in reducing the amount of copper between the cpu and water. I read somewhere about 1 block having as little as 1mm between cpu and water. Not sure what the TDX is.
 
OK. I now have the Panaflo's on the rad aswell and they seem to have made a small but significant difference. I have received my extra temp monitoring stuff yet but hopefully they will arrive today and I can fit them this weekend.

Idle temps where stable around the 28c mark on core 1 this morning with core 0 as low as 23c. Ambient room temp was about 21c. After 40mins use they had risen by approx 4c so room temp is obviously having an effect.

Will update you with temp details once known.
 
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