Radiator space - will this be enough?

GoogalyMoogaly

GoogalyMoogaly

GoogalyMoogaly

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Hi,

I'm currently trying to decide between holding on to my (unopened) TJ11 or sending it back and getting a Little Devil case.
I'm just trying to establish if I'll be able to fit enough radiators in the TJ11.

I'm planning to cool a:
SB-e i7 3930K
Asus Rampage IV Extreme
2 (possibly expanding to 3) GTX 670s (also wouldn't want to rule out a 4th, but this is quite unlikely unless prices drop or I come into silly amounts of money)

I believe the packaging says you can fit a 560mm (Black Ice SR-1) radiator in the bottom of the TJ11 but both rjkoneill and Cleeecooo only used 480mm radiators so I think that seems like a better estimate. Especially as I wouldn't be using a Black Ice SR-1, so other 560mm may not fit.
I would hope to get another 240mm radiator down the bottom on the other side, but I'm not sure if this will actually be possible.
Also it looks like I could fit a 120mm radiator to the top exhaust.

I would probably use XSPC EX rads to allow for space constraints.
So will a 480mm and a 120mm (and possibly a 240mm) radiator be enough to cool that hardware well will low fans?

I thought the rule was 120mm rad area per component plus an extra 120mm. Which mean with 3 graphics cards I'd need 6 x 120mm, which I'm not sure you'd get in the TJ11.
I've previously cooled a AMD Phenom II 1055T and GTX 480 on a 360mm SR-1 and 120mm EK CoolStream XT rad and the temperatures were rubbish.
So to me it seems I'll be trying to cool twice as much stuff on less than twice as much radiator space. So I can't see how a fully kitted out TJ11 is going to offer decent watercooling.

Which is why I was considering the Little Devil case which I believe should be able to fit 3 x 480mm (thin) rads. As this is pretty much triple my old cooling loop I'd hope this would work.

I'd really like to know if the TJ11 loop should work (since I have the TJ11)?
The Little Devil is my backup plan.

Thanks.
 
do you really need three triple rads?

surely just get

Hardware Labs Black ICE Radiator SR1 560 @ £111.98 inc VAT

WC-041-BX_400.jpg


and

Hardware Labs Black ICE Radiator SR1 280 @ £69.98 inc VAT

WC-039-BX_400.jpg


and put them in the bottom.

I would be willing to wager that temperatures would be practically identical.

watercooling eventually gets to the point where your temps do not decrease further.

I personally found that with this spec:
  1. 5GHz Westmere 6core Xeon
  2. 480 SLI @ 950MHz & Big Voltages
  3. X58 UD7

i was adding more radiator capacity and it simply wasn't changing the temperatures.

i hit the lowest temperatures running a 480 and 240 rad. I then added a 120 and it made no difference. I added a 350 and it made no difference.

just something to consider as it seems to be false economy even on very high end/high tdp rigs.

just look at W3bbo's project angel, he was running a PA360 on nearly every individual component in his system and the temps were about what I was getting on my own system with similar hardware.

i used a 480 in the bottom of my tj11 because i had one in my tj07 and couldnt be bothered to try and sell it to buy a new rad.
i would have loved the rad combo i listed up above :p


all you are doing is adding more fans, which will inevitably make the system louder.
 
fyi, i am currently running a 590 and 3820 at 4.8ghz on a single 480 rad. using 1850 GT fans running at 400rpm - 800rpm [inaudible unless under extended stress]

temps never exceed 45'c on either GPU and never exceed 60'c on the CPU.

all in the same loop.

if temps were rubbish on a AMD Phenom II 1055T and GTX 480 using about the same rad capacity and [im assuming here] higher rpm fans then something was clearly wrong.

out of experience, i would probably suggest poor case layout/not enough static pressure on the fans/poor pump flow rate

delete as applicable.
 
Thanks the responses. I was wondering at what point extra rads would stop making a difference. I expected 3 x Quad rads would be overkill, but better that then not-really-quite-enough-kill.

The reason I wasn't going to use the SR-1 rads is because Cleeecooo suggested there's not a lot of space in the bottom of the TJ11 (which having seen a video I can believe). So using EX rads would probably give me over an inch extra space (between rads).

There's also the issue I saw in the YouTube video where the 560mm rad will be blowing right onto the back of the PSU will little space between them. So the guy in the video turned the PSU around so the air blowing through the rad was being blown into the PSU intake. Is that a good idea? Is the air coming of the rads likely to be so warm it is detrimental to the PSU?

I'm also curious as to what 140mm fans you'd use on a 560mm/280mm radiator?
How would you secure the radiators in the bottom of the TJ11, there don't seem to be any rad mounts. (And I can't find anywhere that sells the XSPC 140mm rad mounts).

My Phenom II (socket temp) would get into the low-mid 40ºs as I recall. The 480 would get to the high 50ºs. Using 4 GT AP-15s running at 1000rpm. Also using a MCP35X PWM pump running between 2500-3500rpm (depending on CPU temp). So you can see why I was disappointed with the temps (GPU mostly).

I think Cleeecooo re-used his 480mm rad for the same reason. I just found it odd that after spending what must have been nearly £500 (at the time) to upgrade from a TJ07 to TJ11 neither of you got a new rad. Which would surely mean the cooling would've been very very similar in cases that look pretty similar?
So based on that logic I wondered if there was a reason both of you had decided to stick with 480mm rads. Maybe even that you both wanted to use GT fans because you couldn't find decent 140mm rad fans.


Damn those SR-1s do look tempting though...
 
Hi Googaly,

I've just got a TJ11 as an upgrade from a TJ07 I had a 480 single loop in the TJ07.
On the TJ11 I've bought a XSPC 560
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-090-XS&groupid=962&catid=1523&subcat=1841
And a 280 for the other side they will be cooled by 140mm Akasa Apache fans
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-064-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=1816
The 560 will cool the GPU's either 2x 580 3Gb's or 3x 670's the 280 will do the board and the CPU the fans will be pushing out. If I can get a 420 on the other side I will.
One of my main reasons to get a TJ11 apart from more space and better cooling was because I could fit a 560 in there to use anything else is a waste of its potential !:o
The 560 rad is a easy fit in the bottom I'm going to use the EK brackets to fit it as there a very clean simple soloution.;)
And with the two 180mm Air Penatrators blowing over everything it will be very cool :cool:
 
barjoysee said:
Hi Googaly,

I've just got a TJ11 as an upgrade from a TJ07 I had a 480 single loop in the TJ07.
On the TJ11 I've bought a XSPC 560
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-090-XS&groupid=962&catid=1523&subcat=1841
And a 280 for the other side they will be cooled by 140mm Akasa Apache fans
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FG-064-AK&groupid=701&catid=57&subcat=1816
The 560 will cool the GPU's either 2x 580 3Gb's or 3x 670's the 280 will do the board and the CPU the fans will be pushing out. If I can get a 420 on the other side I will.
One of my main reasons to get a TJ11 apart from more space and better cooling was because I could fit a 560 in there to use anything else is a waste of its potential !:o
The 560 rad is a easy fit in the bottom I'm going to use the EK brackets to fit it as there a very clean simple soloution.;)
And with the two 180mm Air Penatrators blowing over everything it will be very cool :cool:
Click to expand...

Have you actually done this or just planning to do this?

Radiator wise that's the same combo I was thinking about, although I was gonna go with the Viper fans, just to give me the option of turning the fans up (since the EX rads don't do quite so well with really low rpm fans).
So where will you mount your pump(s)?
This is my other decision. I could put them on the divide, but would need to remove at least one of the 180mm fans for that. If everything is watercooled will I need both of them?

Then the 670s are the next issue. I'd like 4GB cards for some future-proofing, but that limits me to the short EVGA cards or the new KFA2 cards that are custom PCBs and thus will need to be GPU only blocks, which I'm not massively fond of.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
Have you actually done this or just planning to do this?

Radiator wise that's the same combo I was thinking about, although I was gonna go with the Viper fans, just to give me the option of turning the fans up (since the EX rads don't do quite so well with really low rpm fans).
So where will you mount your pump(s)?
This is my other decision. I could put them on the divide, but would need to remove at least one of the 180mm fans for that. If everything is watercooled will I need both of them?

Then the 670s are the next issue. I'd like 4GB cards for some future-proofing, but that limits me to the short EVGA cards or the new KFA2 cards that are custom PCBs and thus will need to be GPU only blocks, which I'm not massively fond of.
Click to expand...
What your doing thinking is most of what I've gone through.

I've got almost everything in place but not all. I've pushed the 560 Rad into the bottom and it fits like I said easily.

As for the Pumps I may use a Dual bay Koolance res to fit the Pumps or a Dual top EK and fit my two D5s on the middle shelf no need to move the other 180mm fan as plenty of room.

And for GPU's I was going to go for the 4Gb EVGA my self untill I found out what you did the new tiny PCB's :( and nasty little EK blocks that would mean using heatsinks = not for me..

The 2 Gb cards were the other option but for me 1 major question remains
do the 2Gb cards run out of Video memory at my Res 2560x1600? with say B3 at default Max settings ?

My Current 3 Gb cards hit 2.1 Gb Mem usage at such settings but I have read a few times even though they have only 2Gb things scale to the Video memory you have...but I have also seen a Video on Youtube were a guy did run out of video memory..:o

If the 2 Gb 670's are a go I will get the EVGA 2Gb 670 FTW as it uses a 680 PCB (Read full size) that is black and fits the full 680 cooler from EK..;)

But no where has the old style EK blocks I would need !:(
 
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The only thing with the tiny PCB EVGA cards is that I think EK will be doing full cover blocks for them (due early next month I think). So I'm tempted by them.

With the 560mm i nthe bottom and with fans attached, how much clearence is there between the rad/fan and the PSU?
 
Those blocks are being made full cover ones that is but there the new style which I hate...
There is a fair bit of space I'll dig out my camera tomorrow and grab some quick pics..
 
Those are really helpful, thanks.

Since I have a habit of looking ahead and finding problems...
How would you get the rads out at a later date? I looks like they have to go in and out through the back? If so, is that true of the 280mm as well?

Despite rjkoneill's rad suggestion (I think they'd be awesome rads, I've used the SR-1 360), I think based on that picture I'd have to agree with Cleeecooo that using a thicker rad than the XSPC EX rads would make it a tight fit. The SR-1s are what 1.9cm thicker than the EX rads? That'd make it about as thick as the PSU. Might get away with it with 1 rad, but with 2 I think you'd want the thinner rads.

Are you putting a waterblock on the motherboard too? I've got to do something to shut that fan up, either watercool it or change motherboards (considering the Asus P9X79 WS and MSI Big Bang Xpower II).

EDIT: I was also wondering about cutting out the power switch (and surrounding area) on the front at the bottom and fitting a fan there to draw in some fresh air so the 2nd rad isn't using warm air from the first.
 
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Hi Googaly,

Your welcome..I've got a SR1 480 from my Tj07..quick pic next to the XSPC 560 if fir with room to spare but it uses a lot more space..

http://i48.tinypic.com/j67tl0.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/a4ymfr.jpg

and you can see why going to a bigger 560 over 480 makes a big difference !:cool:;)

http://i45.tinypic.com/2sbtw6e.jpg

Choosing the XSPC for me was a couple of reasons you needed really high CFM fans on the SR1 that I have to get the air through becasue of the high FPI with the XPSC its still highish FPI but with the Air only having to push though 1" instead of 2" should make a big difference...but we shall see also the matt finish is perfect for the TJ11 case.

I've got the Waterblock from EK for the mobo already, I always W/C the Mobo.

As to cutting the case I "Really" wouldn't by having the fans pushing inside--> out on both sides there will be no heat buildup. Unless the Rad blocks the air.
 
You're right, there is a massive difference between 480 and 560 rads!

To be honest there's more space than I was expecting with the SR1 in there, still may be a bit tight though.

Has that SR1 got a mirror finish? That looks nice, although you probably can't tell once it's in place.

As to the high FPI count, I thought SR-1 had something like 9 FPI, are you sure that isn't the GTX version of the rad? I think they have something like 20 fpi.

Gonna be a tough call for me between the EX rads and the SR-1s. EX rads are cheaper though and I may be thankful of the extra space.
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
You're right, there is a massive difference between 480 and 560 rads!

To be honest there's more space than I was expecting with the SR1 in there, still may be a bit tight though.

Has that SR1 got a mirror finish? That looks nice, although you probably can't tell once it's in place.

As to the high FPI count, I thought SR-1 had something like 9 FPI, are you sure that isn't the GTX version of the rad? I think they have something like 20 fpi.

Gonna be a tough call for me between the EX rads and the SR-1s. EX rads are cheaper though and I may be thankful of the extra space.
Click to expand...

Your Right I think it is the GTX it is the same size though should have made sure of the model but its hard to rememmber when you bought it so long so my apologies..:o:)
 
Yeah, the size was the interesting thing, not the FPI.

You did say that that was a factor behind you getting the XSPC rad. Would you have gotten one of the SR-1 rads if you'd have known they were better than the XSPC rads with low rpm fans or would you still have gotten the XSPC ones due to the thickness?
 
GoogalyMoogaly said:
Yeah, the size was the interesting thing, not the FPI.

You did say that that was a factor behind you getting the XSPC rad. Would you have gotten one of the SR-1 rads if you'd have known they were better than the XSPC rads with low rpm fans or would you still have gotten the XSPC ones due to the thickness?
Click to expand...

With the HW Labs GTX I didn't have the choice of going low speed on the Fan as nearly no air got through with high pressure say 1500rpm things were better but I was running 2x580's,CPU, northbridge and at one point Memory on 1 loop it wasn't great as you were always limmited by the higher temps reached by the CPU. And I ended up having to run my TJ07 with the sides off :(

So two loops were a must this time when My GPU's top out at 45C they wont be effected by the CPU at say 60C and vice versa.

The tick boxes were matt finish (Ala the TJ11) slimmer profile so the air isn't trapped by the Rad and a smaller width to give as much space as possible the XPSC is great on all counts and the finnish is fantastic.:cool:

I would never have got the SR1 to be honest..to wide and too low FPI..:o
 
I was just wondering as it's my understanding that the SR1 outperforms the EX rads at every fan speed, so the only reasons to get the EX over the SR1 is price and size/depth. (Well and just personal preference...)

I had considered going with 2 loops, but it seems trickier from a tubing point of view. Of course I'm still not sure how/where I'm going to mount my pumps.
Also, I believe I read the argument somewhere that unless you're stressing both GPU and CPU at the same time the space from the other rad could be being used to help cool what you are stressing.
 
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