Radiator thickness

Reality|Bites · 3 Oct 2017 at 08:36

So i'm planning a new build but still undecided on the rads.

I could go for a 360 60mm rad in the front but this would require faster running noisier fans but then again I could go for a 420 45mm rad, would this offer the same level of cooling?
Or I could go for an Alphacool 420 60mm rad but then again faster nosier fans.
That would be at the front of the case, for the top I'm thinking about either a 420 60mm in just a pull config or a 420 30mm in a push/pull config (45mm if it fits).

Which would perform the best?

pastymuncher · 3 Oct 2017 at 09:12

You have it the wrong way around. As a rough guide, thicker rads tend to have much less fin density than thinner rads so you can use slower fans. Thin rads tend to have a higher fin density to make up for their thinner size so need faster fans (or higher (SP) static pressure) to force the air through the increased number of fins. Take the cheapest thick 360mm rad on here, the Coolgate G2 360mm Crossflow. It 65mm thick and has a fin density of just 10fpi (10 fins per inch) which means that it has low air flow restriction so you don't need high speed fans to push the air through it. The EK Coolstream SE 360 which is only 26mm thick has more than double the fin density at 22fpi so will need a faster fan (or fan with a higher SP). Different radiators perform in different ways as well so I think you could do with reading some reviews. Thermalbench has a good selection of radiator reviews, extreme rigs is another good source of reviews for watercooling gear.

Reality|Bites · 3 Oct 2017 at 09:45

oh ok, So which two rads would you recommend for the TT view 71? I would want if possible a push/pull at the top. I'm going push/pull at the front anyways.
For a pump I was swaying towards the EK dual D5 but I think the sensible option is going to be that enermax neochanger pump/res combo.

Baboonanza · 3 Oct 2017 at 13:54

pastymuncher said:
You have it the wrong way around. As a rough guide, thicker rads tend to have much less fin density than thinner rads so you can use slower fans. Thin rads tend to have a higher fin density to make up for their thinner size so need faster fans (or higher (SP) static pressure) to force the air through the increased number of fins. Take the cheapest thick 360mm rad on here, the Coolgate G2 360mm Crossflow. It 65mm thick and has a fin density of just 10fpi (10 fins per inch) which means that it has low air flow restriction so you don't need high speed fans to push the air through it. The EK Coolstream SE 360 which is only 26mm thick has more than double the fin density at 22fpi so will need a faster fan (or fan with a higher SP). Different radiators perform in different ways as well so I think you could do with reading some reviews. Thermalbench has a good selection of radiator reviews, extreme rigs is another good source of reviews for watercooling gear.

If you look at the extremerigs data it's actually the thinner rads that do better at lower RPMs. For instance the EK PE360 beats the XE at 750rpm and has a slightly lower fin density (16 vs 19). The best performing slim rad the Nemesis 360 GTS also has 16fpi. This is push only but then who can fit a push/pull XE in? (besides me, I have 2 XE 360s in a sandwich

). Though as you say radiator specs don't tell the whole story, you have to look at the data.

Using the EK 360 SE is clearly just poorly designed and is sub-par at every fan speed.

Personally I would just go for 2 *good* 45mm rads.

VKleita · 3 Oct 2017 at 17:48

I dont get the obsession with push pull, In all the test I have done in both my own and other peoples rigs it makes very little diffrence unless it is some MONSTA type rad that is designed for it.

Fan companies must love it thou with all the extra units they shift.

Doobedoo · 3 Oct 2017 at 18:43

VKleita said:
I dont get the obsession with push pull, In all the test I have done in both my own and other peoples rigs it makes very little diffrence unless it is some MONSTA type rad that is designed for it.

Fan companies must love it thou with all the extra units they shift.

It potentially can remove more heat than a single fan setup but if your single fan is already efficient at removing the the amount of heat produced, then no you won't notice a difference.

Better for thicker rads or rads with a higher fpi.

VKleita · 4 Oct 2017 at 09:44

Oh I know Doobedoo, Potentially it can help with a lot of things, I just find it burns more electric and makes more noise.
Horses for courses as they say!

Trunkey · 4 Oct 2017 at 16:04

[QUOTE="Baboonanza, I have 2 XE 360s in a sandwich

[/QUOTE]

Now I'm very interested in that idea! do you just have one fan in the middle or one on either side of each rad, how do you find it compares to a more conventional set up?

VKleita · 4 Oct 2017 at 21:25

sandwich as in two rads together air from one to other?

Surely Rad two just re ingress the extra heat that was pushed out from rad one .. ?

You cant cool anymore than the air temp, which coming out of rad one must be pretty warm ....

Doobedoo · 4 Oct 2017 at 22:56

VKleita said:
Oh I know Doobedoo, Potentially it can help with a lot of things, I just find it burns more electric and makes more noise.
Horses for courses as they say!

It just means your loop is already working efficiently and extra fans bring no benefit, for others it may be worth it.

Tests has already shown that push pull can and does remove more heat than just pull. http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/02/2...tups-learned-stop-worry-love-fans-less-noise/

VKleita · 5 Oct 2017 at 09:22

at nearly 2000 RPM ??? Jesus that must be loud !
I don't think I have a fan that goes over 500.

Looking at some of those rads an improvement from 400 to 430 is not a massive improvement considering the extra noise, purchase cost and running costs for me!

But if you want the absolute "max" , its just not me.

Then again i have two huge external rads so Im probably not one to comment

ubersonic · 5 Oct 2017 at 11:25

Trunkey said:
Now I'm very interested in that idea! do you just have one fan in the middle or one on either side of each rad, how do you find it compares to a more conventional set up?

Radiator sandwiches are something of a taboo in water cooling these days, quite surprising to see anyone using one in 2017, it was an idea that came about 10-15 years ago and a few people jumped on the bandwagon before any reviewers did any proper testing and revealed it actually makes thins worse in almost all situations.

To put it in perspective, two 360mm radiators in a sandwich don't just perform worse than they normally would but they actually perform worse than a single 360 with the same amount of fans attached. The only exception is if you sandwich two 360s with nine fans which you obviously can't do with one 360, however that 9 fan sandwich still gets beaten by a single thick 360 in push/pull.

Smffy · 5 Oct 2017 at 18:39

In what universe would you make it hard on yourself with two slim radiators over one thick one?

I have the HWLabs black ice MP radiators in 60mm, FPI (fins per inch) are nice and low but the cooling is amazing. The higher FPI rads can be more effective as they spread the heat but usually the low FPI is quieter even at low speeds as air resistance is low. Former owner of the EK slums and they work but not incredibly well with more modern heat heavy kit...

Extreme case I’ve got 2 x 240, 1 x 360 and 1x 480, ultimately my 1080s will run at 2,100 in SLI full load at about 35c. Big chunky rads with low FPS for me mate.

Doobedoo · 5 Oct 2017 at 19:09

VKleita said:
at nearly 2000 RPM ??? Jesus that must be loud !
I don't think I have a fan that goes over 500.

Looking at some of those rads an improvement from 400 to 430 is not a massive improvement considering the extra noise, purchase cost and running costs for me!

But if you want the absolute "max" , its just not me.

Then again i have two huge external rads so Im probably not one to comment

Yeah to be fair at low rpm's their is very little difference in it, it only really comes into play as you are exceeding the cooling capacity of your loop. If you have space for larger rads then you'll have little need for a push/pull setup but if you have less surface area then it can help.

I'm going push/pull on my front intake rad if only just to get more air flowing through my case, I don't expect it to make much difference to water temps or noise to be honest.

Glanza · 6 Oct 2017 at 10:14

If your still getting the View 71 get 2x 360mm 60mm stick one in the front and one in the top. I'd recommend Mayhem Havoc range if you can get them sourced.

Reality|Bites · 6 Oct 2017 at 11:49

I've had a look at a review of them and they perform middle of the pack, yes they are cheap and perform well with low rpm's
but I'm thinking I may as well get something better now rather than be stuck wondering if I could get better performance with something else.

Glanza · 6 Oct 2017 at 15:46

I've had various makes of radiators over the years and the Mayhems have been the best option for me, build quality and preflushing is ahead of most of the other major players aswell.