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Raja is leaving Intel

It is incomprehensible
No it is not incomprehensible, if it was then there would be no companies producing products. Your argument is entirely self defeating.

Nowhere did I say Raja was the sole cause for anything, but clearly being the head of something to the point that thing is a roaring success is not within his skill set.

You're criticising people for making generalisations and then creating generalisations for you to argue with, it's just strawman.
 
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It is incomprehensible. Can you properly comprehend one person? How about 1000? How about 1000 working together using a hundred tools and 50 processes... My point is, people make gross generalisations of exceptionally complex situations. Saying that one person in such a system is the cause of all problems is ridiculous, not without an amazing insight into that person and that organisation.

That is where track record comes into play.
 
Raja seams a quitter. He joins a company, fails his project then quits. He won't get anywhere in life.

A real man man would bounce back with both guns blazing and create a killer follow-up to Arc.

Exactly what I came on to say haha. He failed at amd, wasnt great at apple and failed at intel!

The new AI related company is gonna be a fail as well
 
Raja is clearly not a stupid or average engineer. I don't know about his work at Apple but Vega was a compute power house. I just don't think his ideas fits the gaming branch of PCs. If you use a hammer to hammer in a screw then the end result will be less than desirable. I think AI might be one of the better fits for him. Intel was already starting to have some trouble when they hired him and their decreasing cashflow ever since can't have been a helping one bit. He clearly haven't been the right tool for the job that these companies wanted done, that doesn't mean he isn't a capable person.
 
Raja Koduri was director of advanced technology development at ATI from 2001 to 2009. Many of us older folk know of him because of that. He joined ATI to work on the Radeon R300,aka,the 9700 series and the follow up X800 series. This is the only time ATI/AMD managed to match/beat Nvidia in sales share in the last 20 years.He was also involved with the Radeon R700,aka, as the HD4000 series,and worked on the HD5000 series. He was responsible at Apple for the integration of retina displays,etc.

When he rejoined AMD in 2013,the company was at the verge of bankruptcy. They massively cut R and D,unlike Nvidia who increased R and D. Lisa Su admitted 70% of their R and D budget went towards Zen. At the same time the previous CEOs had locked AMD into a horrible agreement with Global Foundries,and they were paying loads in penalties because their CPU sales were going south and they couldn't use the agreed volumes.

This included pushing AMD GPUs onto an inferior GF 14NM process node,whilst Nvidia used a much better TSMC 16NM for Pascal. GF 14NM was horrible for larger die products.

Polaris was developed under him on a shoestring budget and propped up AMD consumer graphics for years. Vega was released firstly as compute card called Radeon Instinct.

Because of all the moaning AMD fans,they went re-released these cards to consumers,and had to make a loss on them. That is one of the biggest mistakes AMD made - they should have just not bothered,as it was a loss leader card.

Vega still lives on in cDNA and cDNA2. Vega OTH,did pretty well in AMD IGPs for years,beating off Intel for most of that time,despite AMD being behind in process node technology until Zen2. But since most of you would not even glance at an IGP,you wouldn't realise that.

RDNA1 was started when he was there,as it takes 3~5 years to develop a new uarch. RDNA2 in 2020 was an evolution of RDNA1,which appeared the next year. Dev kits for the PS5 already existed in 2019.

So at this point,some of this hate towards him seems more emotional,not based on the fact AMD simply had no money for years. Whether he was there,or anyone else was there,Nvidia simply spent more on R and D. The fact that AMD got even near is remarkable.

Regarding Intel - what about the rest of the company? Look at the massive amount of infighting in the company? They let go of 1000s of older,more experience workers:

They keep cancelling and changing CPU roadmaps,process node roadmaps,etc.They have screwed up on the process node rollout for the last 5+ years. Their CPU roadmap for servers is in a mess. Atom failed miserably.

They had years to work on the software side of things for their integrated graphics,but never bothered. Instead spent billions on all sorts of random purchases.

AMD was in a far worse situation,but it took Rory Read and Lisa Su to steady the ship. The problems at Intel stem from a lack of steady leadership at the very top for the last 5~8 years,and a lack of realistic goals.

If AMD with decades of experience,console contracts,strong links with devs,etc finds it incredibly hard to compete with Nvidia,how do people expect Intel with it's first one or two designs,with a history of not even caring about software,expect to match/beat Nvidia,let alone AMD?

It's not only the hardware but the whole software stack for 100s if not 1000s of games. If it was so easy,then look at the numerous Chinese dGPUs,some made on 7NM which have horrible performance due to poor drivers and lack of gaming support.

Apple has taken years to move to its own GPU uarch(they started moving towards it in 2014),and even then look at gaming performance? This is with a company that controls their whole ecosystem.

I remember back in the late 90s and early 2000s,when we had more dGPU companies out there,how software could make or break things.
Raja is clearly not a stupid or average engineer. I don't know about his work at Apple but Vega was a compute power house. I just don't think his ideas fits the gaming branch of PCs. If you use a hammer to hammer in a screw then the end result will be less than desirable. I think AI might be one of the better fits for him. Intel was already starting to have some trouble when they hired him and their decreasing cashflow ever since can't have been a helping one bit. He clearly haven't been the right tool for the job that these companies wanted done, that doesn't mean he isn't a capable person.

Many here also have clearly forgotten the AMD WSA fiasco. They were locked into having to use inferior GF process nodes or pay huge financial penalties.Both Polaris and Vega were moved onto GF 14NM,which was noticeably worse than TSMC 16NM. Then on top of that 70% of AMD R and D was moved to develop the Zen CPU uarch.

This is why you saw only two Polaris dGPUs. The one behind the RX460(Polaris 11/21) was probably partially funded by Apple:

We never saw a Polaris design past Polaris 20/Polaris 30.

They literally released Vega 10 as the Radeon Instinct MI25 months before Vega 64,which was massively pushed past it's sweetspot. It was clearly never really intended as a gaming card,because they were loss leaders. Yet,the same Vega uarch is in the current Ryzen 5000 APUs. The current CDNA1 and CDNA2 uarchs are direct descendents of Vega.

RDNA3 might be the first design he had not much involvement with.RDNA1/RNDA2 were generally on better process nodes than Nvidia too. Now Nvidia is on a better process node than AMD,and we can see Nvidia pushing ahead more.
 
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I think the main thing which got people set against Raja was the constant hype. So much so that a lot of people just took him as being a big mouth marketeer.

Also, whether with tiny budget during the AMD lean years, or a huge budget at Intel - the hype never met reality.
 
Raja seams a quitter. He joins a company, fails his project then quits. He won't get anywhere in life.

A real man man would bounce back with both guns blazing and create a killer follow-up to Arc.
He's climbed the career ladder very efficiently considering he's not been having much success.
 
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MLID says with Raja gone and the GPUs under performing - Intel's GPU division is going into hibernation and won't attempt again to launch a high end GPU until 2027

The letter from the CEO was cutting, Raja barely mentioned despite being so senior and 'mixed emotions'. I suspect Lisa Su felt the same way after Fury X, 'poor Volta' and the ridiculous overhyping of a late and underperforming Vega.
 
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Raja Koduri was director of advanced technology development at ATI from 2001 to 2009. Many of us older folk know of him because of that. He joined ATI to work on the Radeon R300,aka,the 9700 series and the follow up X800 series. This is the only time ATI/AMD managed to match/beat Nvidia in sales share in the last 20 years.He was also involved with the Radeon R700,aka, as the HD4000 series,and worked on the HD5000 series. He was responsible at Apple for the integration of retina displays,etc.

When he rejoined AMD in 2013,the company was at the verge of bankruptcy. They massively cut R and D,unlike Nvidia who increased R and D. Lisa Su admitted 70% of their R and D budget went towards Zen. At the same time the previous CEOs had locked AMD into a horrible agreement with Global Foundries,and they were paying loads in penalties because their CPU sales were going south and they couldn't use the agreed volumes.

This included pushing AMD GPUs onto an inferior GF 14NM process node,whilst Nvidia used a much better TSMC 16NM for Pascal. GF 14NM was horrible for larger die products.

Polaris was developed under him on a shoestring budget and propped up AMD consumer graphics for years. Vega was released firstly as compute card called Radeon Instinct.

Because of all the moaning AMD fans,they went re-released these cards to consumers,and had to make a loss on them. That is one of the biggest mistakes AMD made - they should have just not bothered,as it was a loss leader card.

Vega still lives on in cDNA and cDNA2. Vega OTH,did pretty well in AMD IGPs for years,beating off Intel for most of that time,despite AMD being behind in process node technology until Zen2. But since most of you would not even glance at an IGP,you wouldn't realise that.

RDNA1 was started when he was there,as it takes 3~5 years to develop a new uarch. RDNA2 in 2020 was an evolution of RDNA1,which appeared the next year. Dev kits for the PS5 already existed in 2019.

So at this point,some of this hate towards him seems more emotional,not based on the fact AMD simply had no money for years. Whether he was there,or anyone else was there,Nvidia simply spent more on R and D. The fact that AMD got even near is remarkable.

Regarding Intel - what about the rest of the company? Look at the massive amount of infighting in the company? They let go of 1000s of older,more experience workers:

They keep cancelling and changing CPU roadmaps,process node roadmaps,etc.They have screwed up on the process node rollout for the last 5+ years. Their CPU roadmap for servers is in a mess. Atom failed miserably.

They had years to work on the software side of things for their integrated graphics,but never bothered. Instead spent billions on all sorts of random purchases.

AMD was in a far worse situation,but it took Rory Read and Lisa Su to steady the ship. The problems at Intel stem from a lack of steady leadership at the very top for the last 5~8 years,and a lack of realistic goals.

If AMD with decades of experience,console contracts,strong links with devs,etc finds it incredibly hard to compete with Nvidia,how do people expect Intel with it's first one or two designs,with a history of not even caring about software,expect to match/beat Nvidia,let alone AMD?

It's not only the hardware but the whole software stack for 100s if not 1000s of games. If it was so easy,then look at the numerous Chinese dGPUs,some made on 7NM which have horrible performance due to poor drivers and lack of gaming support.

Apple has taken years to move to its own GPU uarch(they started moving towards it in 2014),and even then look at gaming performance? This is with a company that controls their whole ecosystem.

I remember back in the late 90s and early 2000s,when we had more dGPU companies out there,how software could make or break things.


Many here also have clearly forgotten the AMD WSA fiasco. They were locked into having to use inferior GF process nodes or pay huge financial penalties.Both Polaris and Vega were moved onto GF 14NM,which was noticeably worse than TSMC 16NM. Then on top of that 70% of AMD R and D was moved to develop the Zen CPU uarch.

This is why you saw only two Polaris dGPUs. The one behind the RX460(Polaris 11/21) was probably partially funded by Apple:

We never saw a Polaris design past Polaris 20/Polaris 30.

They literally released Vega 10 as the Radeon Instinct MI25 months before Vega 64,which was massively pushed past it's sweetspot. It was clearly never really intended as a gaming card,because they were loss leaders. Yet,the same Vega uarch is in the current Ryzen 5000 APUs. The current CDNA1 and CDNA2 uarchs are direct descendents of Vega.

RDNA3 might be the first design he had not much involvement with.RDNA1/RNDA2 were generally on better process nodes than Nvidia too. Now Nvidia is on a better process node than AMD,and we can see Nvidia pushing ahead more.
David Wang was also a key person at ATI and I would argue he is doing a much better job in Raja's place at AMD. He is also not personally massively hyping up the GPUs and his statements are realistic and measured.
 
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I think the main thing which got people set against Raja was the constant hype. So much so that a lot of people just took him as being a big mouth marketeer.

Also, whether with tiny budget during the AMD lean years, or a huge budget at Intel - the hype never met reality.
Yes, many of the 'poor Volta' people went with him to Intel and didn't last long.
 
David Wang was also a key person at ATI and I would argue his doing a much better job in Raja's place at AMD. He is also not personally massively hyping up the GPUs and his statements are realistic and measured.

Raja was David Wang's superior during many of those periods. The reality is if you look at most of his positions,he was a senior manager and ultimately responsible for engineers like David Wang. AMD fan's got angry because AMD wasn't competing with Intel and Nvidia 100% of the way on not even half the combined budget.

I think the main thing which got people set against Raja was the constant hype. So much so that a lot of people just took him as being a big mouth marketeer.

Also, whether with tiny budget during the AMD lean years, or a huge budget at Intel - the hype never met reality.

Most of the hype was AMD fans going overboard on stuff.

An example is the AMD fans on here hyping Polaris as a GTX980 competitor due to "beast mode" WCCFtech rumours. He literally implied it would be an R9 390/R9 290 and said it was entry level VR performance(the R9 290/R9 390 was listed as entry level performance on an AMD website). I kept telling people it would be an R9 290/R9 390 repeatedly and nope,it was going to be a Fury X/GTX980 competitor. Then when the AMD fans own hype didn't match expectations,suddenly Polaris was crap.

Vega IGPs have kept AMD competitive for years. Vega derived CDNA1/CDNA2 are the basis of AMD commercial cards to this day.

Intel with their huge budget can barely match AMD in CPUs. They threw tons of money at process nodes,packaging technologies,external cache technologies and still get beaten by TSMC and Samsung in process node technologies. Raja Koduri got Jim Keller onboard and he left very quickly(he spent much less time at Intel than at AMD or Apple).

So one has to ask the question,whether senior management in the company wanted money pushed to graphics,when they were fighting for the same money for CPUs,process nodes,etc. Looking at all the infighting in the company over the last few years,no wonder Intel is in this mess. It seems a ton of fiefdoms duking it out with each other.

This is the same company which was firing experienced workers for being too "old" barely 4 years ago.
 
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Raja was David Wang's superior during many of those periods. The reality is if you look at most of his positions,he was a senior manager and ultimately responsible for engineers like David Wang.
Was he actually doing the work though or was he just good at taking the credit? I heard recently that Raja was not an engineer and mainly a software person. I don't personally have anything against him other than disappointment with the products and they way they were hyped to high heaven.
 
Was he actually doing the work though or was he just good at taking the credit? I heard recently that Raja was not an engineer and mainly a software person. I don't personally have anything against him other than disappointment with the products and they way they were hyped to high heaven.

He was a manager,with good experience of the software side,and some knowledge of the hardware side. But you need to have a clue about software to target where the hardware can be good at. The reality is that when he was at ATI they made decent hardware most of the time(OK the X1800 had some issues and the R600 was a flop),but the 9000 series,X800 series,X1900 series,HD4000 series and HD5000 series were developed when he was there. The R300 was the DX9 graphics hardware standard for years.

When he came back a second time you had Polaris,Vega and RDNA1/RDNA2. Considering Polaris and Vega had to be made on a subpar GF 14NM,because the people at AMD before Rory Read put AMD into a lose/lose scenario to stave off bankruptcy. Just look at the R and D budget for graphics at the time against Nvidia.

Yet,Polaris wasn't a flop in the end? It had relevance for 6 years as a uarch,especially since it was designed on a shoestring budget. Vega IGPs are still part of the Ryzen 5000 series APUs - they are still beating what Intel has. CDNA1 and CDNA2 are Vega derivatives and RDNA1 was developed when he was there,and by extension that means RDNA2.

It takes years to develop new designs,and more importantly get the design teams together.

The guy has worked at S3 Graphics,ATI,AMD and Intel since 1996. Have people not noticed he likes jumping into challenging scenarios? S3 was already having issues back then when he joined,and ATI when he joined in 2001 was a massive underdog compared to Nvidia at the time. The R300 was the design which made ATI's name in the industry.

He joined Apple as "Director, Graphics Architecture" meaning he had a hand in that too.So like Keller he stepped into something different. Rejoins AMD,literally as they are trying to starve off bankruptcy. Goes to Intel to try and push into a mature market with two incumbents. Now is going to found an AI gaming software startup.

If he was so bad,then he would have been out of the industry a long time ago,not nearly 30 years. Even Jim Keller only stays for a few years at many places,yet gets all the credit for those companies achievements years later. Jim Keller had good things to say about him IIRC.

Raja Koduri gets dunked on,even when a number of the designs he was involved with have stood the test of time.

Plus Jim Keller joined Intel only in 2018 and left two years later.Who do you think got Jim Keller onboard at Intel? Raja Koduri. Are people blaiming him for the current Intel design problems? Why did he leave so quickly? He spend more time at AMD.Intel is having problems,left,right and centre and almost all their units.

CPU,NAND,GPU,etc. The company has had too many people butting heads inside for the last 5~8 years. To try and blame Raja Koduri for all of them,when so many people have left comes across as people getting annoyed AMD couldn't beat Pascal,on a fraction of the budget.

Lisa Su had made the correct decision to push more budget to CPU R and D. When AMD was competitive people just bought more Nvdia graphics cards anyway,irrespective of drivers,power consumption,etc.
 
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All jokes aside he has done solid foundations. Seeing how well RDNA2 built up from RDNA1/Vega, I'm actually expecting the same thing from Intel, Arc did have its troubles but it's a great starting point and he left them in a strong position to become really competitive later on. He just doesn't hang around long enough for his ideas to properly bear fruit, but he did plant the seed.
 
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