Random theory?

Nanoman

Nanoman

Nanoman

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Do you think randomness is simply just occurances that have no describable pattern or predictibilty? Or do you think there is some sort of underlying theory to random events? Where by it could actually be possible to mathmatically predict lottery numbers or other random occurances. Or do you believe more in Probability Mechanics, whereby nothing is actually random and any occurance is a direct result of one or more events that have preceded it?

Its for uni.
 
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Are you asking whether random is random or not?

I reckon it's random. I also reckon you should do your own homework.
 
Gilly said:
Are you asking whether random is random or not?

I reckon it's random. I also reckon you should do your own homework.
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To an extent, random can be defined in a lot ways, so it can get kinda contradictory to the term, just wanted to know other peoples thoughts etc, which is actually my homework. My post is a little broad tbf.

Do you think its possible to predict lottery numbers with some sort of 'random' theory and mathmatical formulae?
 
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you can predict roulette numbers only by calculating the speed and direction etc to predict where it will land, i believe some dudes made a machine using lasers to predict exactly where it would hit each time.

Random cannot be predicted, this random theory you speak off would simply be proof that the thing in question is not actually random, but was thought of as random.

random roll of a dice for example is a 1 in 6 chance if its perfectly made, you could predict it to a valid correlation but this would be based on odds.. it would be harder to predict as the number of possible options would increase, and this increase would be exponential

Nanoman said:
Do you think its possible to predict lottery numbers with some sort of random theory and mathmatical formulae?
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certainly not
 
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how about its all pre planned somewhere its just random because its il-logical meaning you didnt think nor expect it to happen ?

(not a matrix theory before anyone says)
 
knowlesy said:
how about its all pre planned somewhere its just random because its il-logical meaning you didnt think nor expect it to happen ?

(not a matrix theory before anyone says)
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its not planned, if you go back in time 50 years, everything would happen exactly as history says (assuming historical records are accurate), this doesnt mean its pre-planned or destined it just means that it is how things happen.

from the point of view of someone born in 2100 everything we do now has already happened, and we cannot change it, because trying to change it, will result in the thing that was suppose to happen, happening.

so basically just because the guy would know whats going to happen doesnt make it predictable via any means
 
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I think Random can be affected by the events that happened to it previously, but there is no rhyme nor reason to somethings. Such as the lottery numbers... there is no way you could figure out what numbers were going to be picked. How could you? They are dropped into the little thing, spun around, bounce off of each other differently each time...
 
Random is just that, you can predict probability, but not the outcome.

Using the lottery if you could model the balls and get there exact weight and any and every imperfection, you might be able top increase the probability of you predicting the outcome, but it will still be a probability not a certainty. If that makes sense.
 
Ciphon said:
I think Random can be affected by the events that happened to it previously
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That doesn't make sense. If it's affected by outside events then it's technically not random.

"Random" is something humans have made up.
 
Just to level the field I do beleive in determinism - If you know the state of everything in the universe at a moment in time you can predict anything that will happen in the future.

So if you knew enough about a lottery machine, spent eons number crunching, taking everything into account, including things like not just the position of the balls, but the voltage of the current on the machine, not only the current air temperature but the current molecules of air in the machine, and their composition, and the exact time to a precision we don't have a word for when the machine is started and stopped a million other variables ( c.f http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory , I beleive you could do it
 
If it can be predicted with certainty, it's not random.

The lottery example is bad because the process used to extract numbers is a deterministic one, and is not in any way random. The reason it's still used is because a) the model required to predict the outcome would be extremely complex and b) you can't know the initial conditions with enough precision to be able to make such predictions anyway.

Examples of what we believe to be truly random are quantum processes such as nuclear decay.

Of course, the problem with randomness is that it's fundamentally impossible to determine by empirical means whether something is in fact random, or whether it's subject to some deterministic framework that is yet to be found.

That said, it is still possible to make probabilistic predictions regarding random events; this is what quantum mechanics deals with.

EternityEight said:
This is what you want http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism

That said Quantum theory relies on true randomness and even proves it exists. i dont buy it though
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It certainly doesn't prove it :)
 
EternityEight said:
Just to level the field I do beleive in determinism - If you know the state of everything in the universe at a moment in time you can predict anything that will happen in the future.
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If the precepts of quantum mechanics are correct (which they seem to be) then the universe is not deterministic.

EternityEight said:
So if you knew enough about a lottery machine, spent eons number crunching, taking everything into account, including things like not just the position of the balls, but the voltage of the current on the machine, not only the current air temperature but the current molecules of air in the machine, and their composition, and the exact time to a precision we don't have a word for when the machine is started and stopped a million other variables ( c.f http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory , I beleive you could do it
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You would also need infinite computational power, since such complex systems are generally not analytically soluble.
 
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