Rant - London rent prices...

Soldato
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But his point was that since BTL has taken off in popularity, house prices have risen to the point where deposits required are out of reach for many more FTB.

You may see BTL landlords as providing a roof over you head but others see it as exploitation of market dynamics.

Buy up all the property that FTB can't afford, rent it back to them for more than they'd have paid for a mortgage, ???, PROFIT.

I don't know the figures. But would be interesting to see how many houses are bought by FTB's and compare that to BTL's.

I'm not saying it is like this, but when people scream foreign buyers push up London prices... Then in reality they make up 3% of transactions.

You can get deposits as low as 5% now. 250k house is 12.5k. Obviously how obtainable this is is down to personal circumstances. But I don't think it's a stupidly unrealistic target to achieve.
 
Soldato
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Buy up all the property that FTB can't afford, rent it back to them for more than they'd have paid for a mortgage, ???, PROFIT.

Also not sure you meant this? But if FTB can't afford them in the first place, they aren't eating into their market?

I can't afford a Ferrari, so people buying 2nd hand Ferrari's and driving the price up doesn't effect me because I couldn't afford one in the first place. Maybe a bad analogy, as a Ferrari isn't essential...

I still think you can't blame BTL's. Got to look to the Government. But we all know why they will not build more houses. (Also the construction market is cautious)
 
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Soldato
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I don't know the figures. But would be interesting to see how many houses are bought by FTB's and compare that to BTL's.

I'm not saying it is like this, but when people scream foreign buyers push up London prices... Then in reality they make up 3% of transactions.

You can get deposits as low as 5% now. 250k house is 12.5k. Obviously how obtainable this is is down to personal circumstances. But I don't think it's a stupidly unrealistic target to achieve.

Who's talking about foreign buyers? Not me. Also not everyone is eligible for Help to Buy and other schemes.

Also not sure you meant this? But if FTB can't afford them in the first place, they aren't eating into their market?

I can't afford a Ferrari, so people buying 2nd hand Ferrari's and driving the price up doesn't effect me because I couldn't afford one in the first place.

You're missing the point. FTB can't afford them in the first place because house prices have increased massively, for many reasons, including the popularity of BTL.

Your analogy with the Ferrari isn't the same. Imagine 10 years ago you could have afforded a 2nd hand Ferrari but now you can't because the price has inflated due to it's popularity with people buying Ferraris to then hire out.
 
Caporegime
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BTL landlords contribute somewhat and so does housing benefit as someone mentioned earlier. Taxing BTL landlords might reduce some of that demand as might the benefit caps. But even if we massively reduced BTL landlords and the amounts claimed via housing benefit you'd likely still see high prices that people can't afford. For a lot of the people complaining it isn't like prices are say 10% more expensive than they'd like... most of them are priced out by quite a distance and I'd wager would still be priced out by other home owners without having to place any blame on housing benefit or BTL landlords.
 
Soldato
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Unless I missed something I thought more or less anyone was eligible for HTB? House under 600k, first home, repayment mortgage, up to 4.5x your salary (what banks will roughly lend you).

I think that's where we differ in opinion. I don't think BTL has had that much of an effect on the market as people would like to think. Maybe I'm wrong. I think the Government schemes and just simple lack of supply has had the most affect on prices.
 
Caporegime
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lack of supply is the most obvious one, though in central London there isn't much they can do about that... still people like to blame foreigners, BTL landlords, benefits tenants etc.. whereas they'd feel a bit silly blaming the fact that the laws of physics exist and until someone invents a tardis then there is finite space in central London
 
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Tea Drinker
Don
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lack of supply is the most obvious one, though in central London there isn't much they can do about that

Every improvement to public transport extends the theoretical area you can work in London and commute. Ashford is now 38 minutes from St Pancras. You could live in on the beach in Hythe and be at your desk in circa 1hr with a fair wind.
 
Soldato
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This is more out of curiosity and the way I feel the natural way the conversation is going, but why didn't you save for a mortgage? This isn't a dig.
Apologies for going back a few posts but I missed this question directed at me. It has already slightly been answered by others though. I do save. I'm very frugal. I save £500-1000 a month and have been doing even when I first moved to London and worked in a minimum wage job. I've got a decent amount of savings, so has my girlfriend who is more than 10yrs older than me. Oh, how she wishes she bought a house in Leeds for £35k back in the day! And no I'm not 18yrs old and just been kicked out of 'home'. I'm a 30yr old professional in a career that I've been following since I graduated from Uni. The problem is that saving is [a] very hard when rent keeps going up and essentially a fruitless endeavour when house prices are rising faster than anyone can physically save. See this article for example: Tessa Jowell: House deposits rise faster than buyers can save

Another example is the flats where I used to live in Ealing, 2 bed flats were rising on average of £35k per year. How are you supposed to keep up with that? It's not actually possible. There was a house round the corner from us that 'earnt' on average £90k per year for the last 5 years. That's definitely more than I earn I can tell you that.

I am sensing a lot of anger towards landlords here.......:eek:
I like riling them to be fair, but like I say I did only get kicked out of my flat a month ago so it's still fairly raw.

The media like to hype so the 70% is not representative. 3% are foreign owned and this is from the Bank of England. Source: Bank of England financial stability report.
I'm still not buying that figure. As said, what about all the purchases by companies? I bet they're not included and most of those purchases are done through holding companies. Quick Google-fu: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...perty-boom-built-on-dirty-money-10083527.html

lack of supply is the most obvious one, though in central London there isn't much they can do about that... still people like to blame foreigners, BTL landlords, benefits tenants etc.. whereas they'd feel a bit silly blaming the fact that the laws of physics exist and until someone invents a tardis then there is finite space in central London
I used to agree, but I don't buy this argument anymore. Look around the Docklands, there's plenty of space and that's still zone 3. Royal Wharf development will have over 3,000 homes, but the problem is nobody can afford them as 2 beds start at 600k or something daft. Same with where I used to live in Ealing. There's the Dicken's Yard development which is hundreds and hundreds of flats -- but the 1 beds start at nearly 600k. It's madness. What FTB can afford that? No-one, so the investors buy them up.
 
Soldato
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lack of supply is the most obvious one, though in central London there isn't much they can do about that... still people like to blame foreigners, BTL landlords, benefits tenants etc.. whereas they'd feel a bit silly blaming the fact that the laws of physics exist and until someone invents a tardis then there is finite space in central London

Plenty of land available (outside of zone 1), but either property developers are sitting on it to speculate or the land is brownfield and seems to take ages to get planning permission. It's a building frenzy where I am in zone 3, but the prices are sadly astronomical.

OP needs to lower his sights though, a couple doesn't need a four bed house in London. I want a three to four bed as I look to settle down in the next few years, but I know that I can't afford to do it in London so will look to move to a commuter town.
 
Soldato
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Apologies for going back a few posts but I missed this question directed at me. It has already slightly been answered by others though. I do save. I'm very frugal. I save £500-1000 a month and have been doing even when I first moved to London and worked in a minimum wage job. I've got a decent amount of savings, so has my girlfriend who is more than 10yrs older than me. Oh, how she wishes she bought a house in Leeds for £35k back in the day! And no I'm not 18yrs old and just been kicked out of 'home'. I'm a 30yr old professional in a career that I've been following since I graduated from Uni. The problem is that saving is [a] very hard when rent keeps going up and essentially a fruitless endeavour when house prices are rising faster than anyone can physically save. See this article for example: Tessa Jowell: House deposits rise faster than buyers can save


No I do feel for you. It must be difficult what with rent as well. Like I said I've just saved up a small fortune with the benefit of living at home still. (Although I still pay £500 a month keep). It's not easy even then.
 
Soldato
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I like riling them to be fair, but like I say I did only get kicked out of my flat a month ago so it's still fairly raw.

Not meaning to be inflammatory or wind you up given that you're still upset about it, but you didn't get kicked out of your flat. You got kicked out of the landlord's flat. Understanding the principles behind ownership would likely mean that you wouldn't have regarded what happened to you as unfair, but simply that someone who possessed a property and had temporarily leased it you wanted to refurbish it. I don't see anything wrong it that, as, by renting, you were presumably fully aware that you were also likely to be turfed out at some point.
 
Man of Honour
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Our not very big 2 bed flat in SE London rents for £1200. One of the joys/hates of London, it's great if you own property, it's painful if you don't.

I fell sorry for students having to pay - but generally people tend to house share, as it works out cheaper that way - but I appreciate it is not always possible.
 
Soldato
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I know mate, why I couldn't do it any more.

I'm a southerner, my other half is from up here and wanted to move down there for quite some years where she built up her career. Was over the moon to move back to Notts a couple of years ago.

You should consider moving somewhere like Buckinghamshire. Slightly better house prices and commute into the big smoke is do'able.

More peace and quiet too.

Where i'm from ( Reading ) is expensive but again it's a reasonable commute. 25 minutes into Paddington by train.

What really amazed me was the fact we only dropped £6k a year in wages between us but the property saving was covered 2-3 times over.

GF is pretty set on being close to central, she works in the City so we're looking around Stratford due to the 20-25 minute or so commute. Although you could likely move further out and get a fast overground train in the same amount of time!

Going to be an expensive buy but will be worth it once we 'get on the ladder', especially with the way property prices are going in that area.
 
Soldato
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Not meaning to be inflammatory or wind you up given that you're still upset about it, but you didn't get kicked out of your flat. You got kicked out of the landlord's flat. Understanding the principles behind ownership would likely mean that you wouldn't have regarded what happened to you as unfair, but simply that someone who possessed a property and had temporarily leased it you wanted to refurbish it. I don't see anything wrong it that, as, by renting, you were presumably fully aware that you were also likely to be turfed out at some point.
Have a big fat :rolleyes: Don't be so utterly patronising. I know full well the 'principles behind ownership' thank you very much :rolleyes: I also know that when you rent a property it is your home. You're completely failing to grasp the fundamental emotional attachment that people would have to a 'property' (or area) that they have lived in for 5+ years. Whilst I pay rent and am under contract it is my home and the law says so. That's what I am paying for, that's why the landlord/agent has to give notice before they want to enter the property, that's why I can choose my utility providers, my ISP, my contents insurance etc.

Almost a quarter of all households in the UK will be renting privately by 2025. I guess you're one of those that thinks we're second-class citizens :rolleyes:
 

Hxc

Hxc

Soldato
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Our three bed in west ham used to be £1k a month, but the landlord didn't increase the rent in about 10 years. I think it's £1400 overall now. Still, my room is less than a third of my wages so I can't complain too much for London.
 
Caporegime
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I used to agree, but I don't buy this argument anymore. Look around the Docklands, there's plenty of space and that's still zone 3. Royal Wharf development will have over 3,000 homes, but the problem is nobody can afford them as 2 beds start at 600k or something daft. Same with where I used to live in Ealing. There's the Dicken's Yard development which is hundreds and hundreds of flats -- but the 1 beds start at nearly 600k. It's madness. What FTB can afford that? No-one, so the investors buy them up.

plenty is a bit subjective, there is some and I'm not sure I'd include the docklands as central when talking about there being no land

still there is a similar effect regardless - the building frenzy is relative, it isn't like they're creating whole new towns etc.. and as you can see the prices are still high - the foreign investors aren't the main cause of this, they're there because there is already considerable demand for prime London property and it is seen as a safe investment
 
Soldato
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Have a big fat :rolleyes: Don't be so utterly patronising. I know full well the 'principles behind ownership' thank you very much :rolleyes: I also know that when you rent a property it is your home. You're completely failing to grasp the fundamental emotional attachment that people would have to a 'property' (or area) that they have lived in for 5+ years. Whilst I pay rent and am under contract it is my home and the law says so. That's what I am paying for, that's why the landlord/agent has to give notice before they want to enter the property, that's why I can choose my utility providers, my ISP, my contents insurance etc.

Almost a quarter of all households in the UK will be renting privately by 2025. I guess you're one of those that thinks we're second-class citizens :rolleyes:

Jesus, don't delude yourself into thinking you own the properly. This is why you're having such trouble with this.

It's not yours at all. You merely live there, you don't own anything.
 
Caporegime
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Jesus, don't delude yourself into thinking you own the properly. This is why you're having such trouble with this.

It's not yours at all. You merely live there, you don't own anything.

he kind of does when he's renting it - he's got a short lease, it is his flat for the duration of that lease

as it is a flat the landlord probably has a lease too - albeit a 125 year one or so and has a few more rights as a result, but still rather limited compared to someone who say owns a detached house on a freehold basis

we could start an argument by saying that the landlord doesn't really own the flat either

though I think the other poster is well aware of what he does/doesn't 'own' when he made that post
 
Permabanned
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Looking for rental in london is very depressing. There is just nothing there and its such low quality. All the purpose built 1 bed and 2 bed flats go to social housing. There is literally nothing available in the entire london area that is reasonable and within my price range. Even if i go further out to high wycombe or woking or reading there is still nothing decent and affordable and when you add on train fair of £400+ a month it ends up costing £1400 to rent a crappy dark one bed conversion, no thanks. As much as i hate house sharing, i just have no other option.
 
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