Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

g67575 · 28 Jul 2022 at 01:47

Intel's tech. documentation confirms that Intel's 13th generation is still using the Golden Cove core architecture, which explains why the IPC is the same as the 12th gen. Details here:

Intel Raptor Cove Cores For 13th Gen Raptor Lake CPUs Feature The Same Architecture As Alder Lake's Golden Cove Cores

Intel's 13th Gen Raptor Lake "Raptor Cove" CPUs and 12th Gen Alder Lake "Golden Cove" cores share the same microarchitecture.

wccftech.com

Essentially, it's just like how the Skylake architecture was optimised for each generation, between the 6th generation to the 10th (Comet Lake).

I wonder if they have optimised the IMC / memory controller at all, aside from increasing the supported DDR5 speeds? Ideally, 'Gear 1' / 1:1 memory controller ratio would be possible, at a lower DDR5 frequency.

It's good that we will see standardisation of DDR5 at 6000mhz and perhaps higher.

Grim5 · 28 Jul 2022 at 03:42

Yes that's why it's called tick-tock

g67575 · 28 Jul 2022 at 07:02

Grim5 said:
Yes that's why it's called tick-tock

It's still worth pointing out, many people tend to think there will probably be a large improvement in per core performance, with each Intel or AMD CPU generation.

Also, many generations are now just 'optimizations' rather than 'ticks' or 'tocks', as with the 7th to 10th generations, Willow Cove (11th gen), and now Raptor Lake:

Tick–tock model - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I assume it's mostly due to Moore's Law slowing down, that we keeping getting optimizations instead of something new.

Optimization is what always seems to proceed a new architecture generation, when a process fabrication shrink is not possible.

It's interesting looking ahead, some of Intel's future processor generations look like they could be both a tick and a tock in effect, e.g. Meteor Lake.

g67575 · 31 Jul 2022 at 13:15

Unfortunately, looks like the 13th gen will be seeing a bump up in prices:

Intel's 13th Gen Raptor Lake-S Processors are Likely to Cost More than 12th Gen Alder Lake | Hardware Times

Over the past half-decade, Intel has had to cut chip prices several times in order to stay competitive against AMD. It looks like that trend will finally reverse soon. During Intel’s Q2 2022 earnings call, company CFO David Zinsner stated that he’s confident about the chipmaker’s upcoming...

www.hardwaretimes.com

I suppose they will want to counter the effects of inflation to some extent...

Dave2150 · 31 Jul 2022 at 13:38

g67575 said:
Unfortunately, looks like the 13th gen will be seeing a bump up in prices:

Intel's 13th Gen Raptor Lake-S Processors are Likely to Cost More than 12th Gen Alder Lake | Hardware Times

Over the past half-decade, Intel has had to cut chip prices several times in order to stay competitive against AMD. It looks like that trend will finally reverse soon. During Intel’s Q2 2022 earnings call, company CFO David Zinsner stated that he’s confident about the chipmaker’s upcoming...

www.hardwaretimes.com

I suppose they will want to counter the effects of inflation to some extent...

Luckily, Raptor Lake still supports DDR4 systems, which will make total cost of ownership (cpu, motherboard, RAM) much cheaper than the equivalent AMD offering..

Ayahuasca · 31 Jul 2022 at 13:58

Dave2150 said:
Luckily, Raptor Lake still supports DDR4 systems, which will make total cost of ownership (cpu, motherboard, RAM) much cheaper than the equivalent AMD offering..

Well AMD still have the 5800X3D which trades blows with the 12900k. Only the 13900k is going to beat the 5800X3D comfortably in say 90% of titles and it's going to be a £600+ CPU lol.

Bencher · 31 Jul 2022 at 14:17

Ayahuasca said:
Well AMD still have the 5800X3D which trades blows with the 12900k.

Comparing the 12900k to the 3d is just a joke. The 12900k is almost twice as fast in 99.9% of workloads. The 3d should be compared to the 12700f. In which case, the 12700f is also faster in 99.9% of workloads, much cheaper, and loses by like 7% at 1080p with a 3080ti in games.

uscool · 31 Jul 2022 at 16:22

Bencher said:
Comparing the 12900k to the 3d is just a joke. The 12900k is almost twice as fast in 99.9% of workloads. The 3d should be compared to the 12700f. In which case, the 12700f is also faster in 99.9% of workloads, much cheaper, and loses by like 7% at 1080p with a 3080ti in games.

What do you mean much cheaper they both are like the same price currently

Depends on use case , if building new system would go intel

If gaming and currently on AM4 cheaper to just do CPU drop in , wouldn't upgrade if already have any of the zen3 chips would be nice jump from zen 1-2

Edit I see you meant the 12700f which is £327 point still stands if already on AM4

cliffy · 31 Jul 2022 at 18:03

Dave2150 said:
Luckily, Raptor Lake still supports DDR4 systems, which will make total cost of ownership (cpu, motherboard, RAM) much cheaper than the equivalent AMD offering..

Not really as its a dead end platform. AM5 will offer slot in upgrades for maybe 4 or 5 generations + DDR5 coming down in price. I don't see RPL being a good buy unless upgrading from ADL

uscool · 31 Jul 2022 at 18:07

Any reason why the b660 boards are locked when using unlocked CPUs ? AMD B550 I gather was never locked ? Or have I missed something ?

Be interesting with am5 being choice of 3 boards if b650 will be locked ?

uscool · 31 Jul 2022 at 18:13

cliffy said:
Not really as its a dead end platform. AM5 will offer slot in upgrades for maybe 4 or 5 generations + DDR5 coming down in price. I don't see RPL being a good buy unless upgrading from ADL

He'll say the performance will be weak so won't matter

Leaning towards getting high end board in mind I'll be keeping it for good while of course if performance and price is good compared to the competition

cliffy · 31 Jul 2022 at 18:36

uscool said:
He'll say the performance will be weak so won't matter

Leaning towards getting high end board in mind I'll be keeping it for good while of course if performance and price is good compared to the competition

Based on leaks this last couple days all things look good for AMD. I really do not understand Intel changing teh socket so frequently, for me its teh biggest reason to use them. I have to Intel systems one 8 year old and teh other 5, meanwhile the only AMD4 range i have not used is teh 2*** series. For me Intel have to increase socket longevity

Deleted User 456458 · 31 Jul 2022 at 19:44

Bencher said:
Comparing the 12900k to the 3d is just a joke. The 12900k is almost twice as fast in 99.9% of workloads. The 3d should be compared to the 12700f. In which case, the 12700f is also faster in 99.9% of workloads, much cheaper, and loses by like 7% at 1080p with a 3080ti in games.

x3d is clearly a niche case CPU. It’s good at exactly the one thing it exits for and that’s ok.

arknor · 31 Jul 2022 at 19:56

Robert896r1 said:
x3d is clearly a niche case CPU. It’s good at exactly the one thing it exits for and that’s ok.

not worth it for the price it costs. barely better above 1080p

cliffy · 31 Jul 2022 at 20:06

arknor said:
not worth it for the price it costs. barely better above 1080p

Your right, 12900k and ks defo not worth it above teh 3d for games based on the cost

arknor · 31 Jul 2022 at 20:09

cliffy said:
Your right, 12900k and ks defo not worth it above teh 3d for games based on the cost

exactly get a 12600 or 12700, probably last a lot longer than a 6 core cpu too since consoles have 8 cores and games are made for them

uscool · 31 Jul 2022 at 20:20

arknor said:
exactly get a 12600 or 12700, probably last a lot longer than a 6 core cpu too since consoles have 8 cores and games are made for them

It has its use cases pop it in old A320 board / dropping it in replacing zen1-2 for nice gaming jump will work out cheaper but the CPU should be cheaper

Building system from scratch now no brainer going intel

Bencher · 31 Jul 2022 at 20:27

Robert896r1 said:
x3d is clearly a niche case CPU. It’s good at exactly the one thing it exits for and that’s ok.

Well sure but you could argue that buy any CPU in existence. Remember that 7350k 2c cpu? Yeah, it wasn't bad, it was clearly a niche CPU for playing CS go and starcraft. The 7700k? Niche CPU for playing 3 year old games at high framerate. Fx8350? Niche CPU for overclockers.

Bencher · 31 Jul 2022 at 20:28

cliffy said:
Your right, 12900k and ks defo not worth it above teh 3d for games based on the cost

And the 3d isn't worth it over a 12600k / 12700 based on teh cost either. Especially considering it loses to 99.9% of workloads to all of these, lol

uscool · 31 Jul 2022 at 20:32

Bencher said:
And the 3d isn't worth it over a 12600k / 12700 based on teh cost either. Especially considering it loses to 99.9% of workloads to all of these, lol

What about this use case / situation you just play games and even old A320 board / wanting to upgrade from zen 1-2 for gaming boost works out cheaper