Raptor Lake Leaks + Intel 4 developments

[g67575]

It looks possible based on a July 2021 article, which shows some leaked info from Intel regarding a shared Sata controller for Alder Lake and 'Raptor Lake'. Link here:
https://hothardware.com/news/intel-...-lake-support-for-incoming-600-series-chipset

My only doubt about this Intel leak, is that the 700 series chipsets (that would presumably release alongside Raptor Lake CPUs) might just use the same SATA controller as the 600 series, as the leak doesn't confirm anything else, like if current boards will support Raptor Lake.

Since nothing has been confirmed regarding Intel's 13th CPU generation, I think it's possible that Intel might use a different fabrication process for Alder Lake's successor. 10nm is something of a dead end, as Intel did not plan to implement EUV lithography on this process.

When we see the temps of the 12900K (reaching 90 degrees at stock settings, with decent air coolers), it might be reasonable to conclude that they may've already hit the limit of what is possible with Intel's 10nm technology (and why Intel didn't opt for additional large cores for the 12th gen). There's also no indication from Intel that they can improve 10nm, much beyond the current version used in Alder Lake (named Intel 7).

Between July to December 2022, Intel is apparently planning to start using their own 7nm EUV process, confusingly named as 'Intel 4'. Here is the roadmap for their fabrication process schedule, according to an Anandtech article:
https://images.anandtech.com/doci/16823/AnandTechRoadmaps3.png

Full article here:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1682...nm-3nm-20a-18a-packaging-foundry-emib-foveros

There's an older article here, that states that Intel's 7nm CPUs will be delayed until "late 2022, or early 2023", due to poor yields, according to previous Intel CEO, Bob Swan. Link here:
https://uk.pcmag.com/news-analysis/127899/intel-sorry-but-our-7nm-chips-will-be-delayed-to-2022-2023

According to Intel, Meteor Lake is the consumer CPU generation that will use the 7nm EUV process (Intel 4), with Granite Rapids being the server counterpart. Source here:
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/tinp8P8vFbRbJ3nDeaQiPE-970-80.jpg.webp

According to a cheeky leaked slide, apparently from Huawei, server processor generations such as Sapphire Rapids (10nm counterpart to Alder Lake) and Granite Rapids (7nm EUV) were planned to ship in 2021 and 2022 respectively, but I'm guessing this schedule has slipped a bit, since Sapphire Rapids hasn't been released (but should be launched in early 2022). Link here:
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/9dMbRBSJcaJMUUxnx9Bboi-970-80.png

There's also a Tweet from Intel that describes Meteor Lake, as "a breakthrough 2023 client processor".

This makes me wonder if 'Raptor Lake' will even exist at all, since Intel may be able to release Meteor Lake instead as the 13th generation, in late 2022 / the 1st half of 2023. Intel has named Meteor Lake in official slides, but has never mentioned Raptor Lake CPUs officially, isn't that strange considering that according to some, it would follow Alder Lake?

Finally, following 'Taping out' the design, Intel have already built a working Meteor Lake prototype in Q3 2021, according to Techspot:
https://www.techspot.com/news/91906-intel-powers-first-14th-gen-meteor-lake-cpu.html

Meteor Lake CPUs will have a chiplet / tiled design, FYI.

 

[Robert896r1]

Raptor lake will exist and current ddr5 boards will support it as a drop in upgrade.

 

[g67575]

At the moment, there's no real proof that Intel is even considering Raptor Lake CPUs, it's not mentioned on roadmaps or any official slides. Perhaps it would be worthwhile if they could improve their 10nm process further, but I'm not sure if they can.

Raptor Lake might just be smoke and mirrors from Intel, or youtubers like MLID.

I think they would only release another 10nm CPU series (probably just a refresh), if something goes wrong with 7nm EUV / Meteor Lake. It's possible even though they have a working prototype of Meteor Lake, that the yields will be poor. But, it seems to be going well overall. My money would be on Meteor Lake being the 13th generation, in early 2023.

 

[Destination]

Might be that it is a slightly refined 12th gen, the 13th gen will benefit from improve ddr5 support, better scheduling etc, so not hard to see how they can gain 10% or more through this alone, even if the chips don't change much.

They did actually launch the 11th gen to follow the 10th knowing it was utter and complete *****.
No reason they won't launch a 13th gen if its 10% better.
There will be a product, and Id expect it 13900 equivalent to be better than the 12900, as for the chips below that who knows, the 12700 and 12600 are excellent chips for what thye do, with faster and better memory support they'll be excellent.

 

[g67575]

Might be that it is a slightly refined 12th gen, the 13th gen will benefit from improve ddr5 support, better scheduling etc, so not hard to see how they can gain 10% or more through this alone, even if the chips don't change much.

They did actually launch the 11th gen to follow the 10th knowing it was utter and complete *****.
No reason they won't launch a 13th gen if its 10% better.
There will be a product, and Id expect it 13900 equivalent to be better than the 12900, as for the chips below that who knows, the 12700 and 12600 are excellent chips for what thye do, with faster and better memory support they'll be excellent.

I think slightly upgraded Alder Lake CPUs might be possible, perhaps with the main benefit being support of higher frequency DDR5 modules, but that would require new motherboards too (at they are currently limited to ~6400mhz). They'd likely still be part of the 12th gen...

 

[Shaz12]

The ADL chips are pushed to the limit already. The only thing I expect RCL to do is improve efficiency not performance.

 

[g67575]

I think the Raptor Lake rumours might've been more credible if they had been backed up by official statements from Intel, regarding further improvements to their current 10nm technology (Intel 7). Normally, they are eager to discuss improvements to transistor density or power efficiency, but I think they've already gone as far as they can with it.

 

[jigger]

Intel have invested heavily in silicon recycling and reprocessing. I think Intel are prepared to produce more E-waste than usual.

 

[Destination]

Intel have invested heavily in silicon recycling and reprocessing. I think Intel are prepared to produce more E-waste than usual.

Most of the 11 series flagships?

 

[jigger]

Most of the 11 series flagships?

Intel=E-Waste.

 

[LePhuronn]

Well somebody somewhere thinks Raptor Lake exists
https://videocardz.com/newz/hwinfo-gets-preliminary-intel-13th-gen-core-raptor-lake-support

Besides, Raptor Lake is supposedly a refinement of Alder Lake. If Golden Cove (the P cores) can be improved (i.e. Raptor Cove with 10% IPC bump) then why wouldn't Intel use them? If Gracemont (the E cores) can be improved, why wouldn't Intel use them?

So, I question why Intel would bother with another generation of 10nm CPUs.

Because Intel need to be seen as continually releasing product for their shareholders. Exactly the same as Rocket Lake. Why did Intel bother with another 14nm++++++++++++ CPU when it was measurably worse than its predecessor? Because shareholders (and token PCIe 4 support to keep up with AMD). And the same will apply to Raptor Lake, especially if Zen 3 V cache reclaims performance leadership when it lands Q1 next year. And doubly so if AMD launch Zen 4 end of next year.

Raptor Lake might just be smoke and mirrors from Intel, or youtubers like MLID.

That's some unnecessary shade thrown there. MLID, AdoredTV, RedGamingTech, and all the other leakers don't just make things up. They report on information they've received. That doesn't preclude the notion that their sources are making things up of course.

Alder Lake has only just landed, what's with the fluff thread about Raptor Lake being non-existent? Not everything a tech company produces has to be on a roadmap for it to exist.

 

[Dave2150]

Raptor Lake is due out Q2 2022, hopefully we have some fresh leaks soon!

As it's a new architecture, I wonder if they'll remove the DDR4 memory controller, freeing up die space for more cores, cache, or larger cores?

I imagine Raptor Lake will compete vs Zen3 refresh (vcache), as they're both looking to launch within a few months of each other, though either could get delayed I guess.

 

[g67575]

Raptor Lake is due out Q2 2022, hopefully we have some fresh leaks soon!

As it's a new architecture, I wonder if they'll remove the DDR4 memory controller, freeing up die space for more cores, cache, or larger cores?

I imagine Raptor Lake will compete vs Zen3 refresh (vcache), as they're both looking to launch within a few months of each other, though either could get delayed I guess.

It doesn't make sense, we've heard from more Intel about their first prototype for Meteor Lake CPUs, than Raptor Lake.

I'll concede that there could be a small improvement compared to Alder Lake if a new generation was released, but I don't think it will feature any significant changes, or anything that will boost performance.

Intel's 10nm development appears to have halted in 2021:
https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Intel-Slide.jpg

It looks like they are moving onto 7nm EUV now. Unless Raptor Lake is some bizarre 7nm EUV backport, to Intel's existing 10nm.

 

[jigger]

Raptor Lake is due out Q2 2022, hopefully we have some fresh leaks soon!

As it's a new architecture, I wonder if they'll remove the DDR4 memory controller, freeing up die space for more cores, cache, or larger cores?

I imagine Raptor Lake will compete vs Zen3 refresh (vcache), as they're both looking to launch within a few months of each other, though either could get delayed I guess.

15 months away and the same architecture.

 

[LePhuronn]

As it's a new architecture, I wonder if they'll remove the DDR4 memory controller, freeing up die space for more cores, cache, or larger cores?

No, it's not new. Raptor Lake leaks suggest it's a refinement of Golden Cove in the P cores to bring a 10% IPC boost, the same Gracemont E cores are used, but doubled in quantity, the memory controller is staying the same to support DDR4 on the 600 series boards that utilise it. Or do you not bother reading anything you continually shill?

I imagine Raptor Lake will compete vs Zen3 refresh (vcache), as they're both looking to launch within a few months of each other, though either could get delayed I guess.

How many times do you have to be corrected before you stop peddling this misinformation? Zen 3 refresh is Q1 2022, Raptor Lake is Q4 2022. Raptor Lake is NOT competing with Zen 3 refresh, it's competing with Zen 4. For crying out loud, enough.

 

[jigger]

No, it's not new. Raptor Lake leaks suggest it's a refinement of Golden Cove in the P cores to bring a 10% IPC boost, the same Gracemont E cores are used, but doubled in quantity, the memory controller is staying the same to support DDR4 on the 600 series boards that utilise it. Or do you not bother reading anything you continually shill?


How many times do you have to be corrected before you stop peddling this misinformation? Zen 3 refresh is Q1 2022, Raptor Lake is Q4 2022. Raptor Lake is NOT competing with Zen 3 refresh, it's competing with Zen 4. For crying out loud, enough.

It’s not competing with Zen4 it’s unlikely to compete with Zen 3D.

Dave gunna Dave though.

 

[Dave2150]

It doesn't make sense, we've heard from more Intel about their first prototype for Meteor Lake CPUs, than Raptor Lake.

I'll concede that there could be a small improvement compared to Alder Lake if a new generation was released, but I don't think it will feature any significant changes, or anything that will boost performance.

Intel's 10nm development appears to have halted in 2021:
https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Intel-Slide.jpg

It looks like they are moving onto 7nm EUV now. Unless Raptor Lake is some bizarre 7nm EUV backport, to Intel's existing 10nm.

Last rumours showed Raptor lake adding 8 more E cores, making the 13900k a 24core CPU (8P cores, 16E cores), along with IPC improvement and cache improvements. Add all that up and it's significant IMO, though just rumours at this point.

 

[LePhuronn]

It’s not competing with Zen4 it’s unlikely to compete with Zen 3D.

Dave gunna Dave though.

Competing in the sense Raptor Lake and Zen 4 will be on the market at the same time, battling for consumer dollars.

Whether the actual performance comparisons will be a competition remains to be seen.

 

[Journey]

They have to release Raptor Lake since Intel 4 isn't going to be ready until 2023 for desktop, or they can hope Alder Lake remains competitive for 18 months and do nothing...

 

[g67575]

Is there any sign that Intel is developing their 10nm process ('Intel 7') further though?

If so, I think that would make another 10nm generation far more likely. The impression I get though, is that Intel has struggled enough with preparing 10nm for desktop PCs and servers, they have already spent more than 3 years developing it, since Cannon Lake was announced in 2018 (at very low yield rates).

EUV lithography should help Intel to improve CPU performance, but as far as I know, it's not possible on Intel's 10nm process.

6/7nm EUV is possible though, and products have already used this tech.

The big clue for me, is the lack of a new server product in between Sapphire Rapids (10nm) and Granite Rapids (7nm EUV) on the leaked Huawei roadmap, see link here:
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/9dMbRBSJcaJMUUxnx9Bboi-970-80.png

No improved 10nm server product = no 10nm Raptor Lake generation for consumers.