Real life difference between 1ms and 6ms response times?

Theres a lot more to it than that 1m v 6ms infact those 2 numbers and what they represent is actually not that useful for comparing monitors any more.

Which of those panels will be better for you will depend a lot on what your main useage is.
 
Thank you, you can tell the last time I purchased a monitor... response time was king.

Usage will be games, mainly and web based stuff.

I play a mixed bag to be honest, Indie games, Sports games, driving games and a lot of Arma 3.

Watch TV/Films occasionally.

Thanks.
 
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Top one will be better for games - though some people don't like 1920x1080 on a 27+" panel due to the size of the individual pixels, bottom one has better image quality and would be ok for slower paced games but might lack a bit in faster paced stuff.
 
The Hazro monitor will look significantly better visually due to the higher resolution of the panel.

Rroff, you need to ignore the fact that you have a 120/144hz monitor when it comes to recommendations, because not everyone is that fussed when it comes to the refresh rates.
 
Refresh rate is attractive but is it a ball ache like eyefinity can be at times?

I have tried to determine the 27" at 1080p thing and people seem split which confuses me.
 
People who go 1440p say they wont go back.

People who got 120Hz+ say they wont go back.


Which appeals to you more? I went 1440p and wouldnt go below.


Thankfully we'll soon be getting both :)
 
ive had 120hz 27" and 27" 1400p and im firmly in the 1400p is better camp, i play a lot of fast paced games like counter strike but i find image quality far more enjoyable than response times
 
I've had 27" Hazro 1440 IPS, 23" NEC 1080 IPS, 24" Asus 1080 TN Film 120hz, 24" BenQ TN Film 144hz Lightboost and 24" Eizo 1080 VA 120hz. Out of all of them the 27" 1440 was the worst for gaming, the Eizo the best. None are perfect however. If you can wait/stretch to it, the New Asus 27" 120hz 1440 looks like it could be "the one", only time will tell.
 
Maybe the upcoming rog swift PG278Q bring together a lot of the things people want and will finally be a good all rounder. You get 1440p and high refresh, ok that still has a down side in the fact its colours may not be as good as an IPS, its angles might suffer a bit. Oh well we will see.
Maybe there can never be a "one size fits all monitor".
 
Gimpymoo said:
Refresh rate is attractive but is it a ball ache like eyefinity can be at times?

I have tried to determine the 27" at 1080p thing and people seem split which confuses me.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't be any issues these days its fairly well supported. The 1080p/27" thing depends person to person some notice it some don't.
 
there's a huge difference in gaming performance between a 1ms G2G TN Film panel with 144Hz refresh rate (Iiyama model discussed here) and a 6ms G2G rated 60Hz IPS panel (Hazro) in real world use.

The TN Film response times are much better in practice and a decent TN Film panel can comfortably reach real response times of 2 - 4ms G2G without introducing too much overshoot. Anything faster tends to be at the cost of overshoot artefacts. For IPS, about as fast as you can hope for at the moment is around 8 - 9 ms G2G without overshoot being an issue. Again anything pushed faster normally introduces some horrible overshoot problems (e.g. Dell U2413 etc).

Then on top of that the frame rate support from a 144Hz capable panel provides much smoother movement and higher fps in games, which a 60Hz IPS panel can't offer.

this article might be useful as well for you: http://pcmonitors.info/articles/factors-affecting-pc-monitor-responsiveness
 
The G2G mentioned by companies are totally fake nowadays. It will take you 10 minutes of research on the internet to find out that those "gaming" TN screens have the same total latency as the best IPS screens, if not even MORE.

Here is proof http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm , have a look at the Lag classification graph. You will see that the Eizo Foris "gaming" screen that goes up to 240Hz infact has 14-18ms total lag, while other IPS screens such as the Asus PB278Q has 15ms and some others are doing even better (because of bypassing certain circuits, mostly).
Personally I bought an IPS Iiyama xb2779qs and the reviews were saying it has around 20ms delay. But think about this: can you notice the difference between 80ms and 100ms in a game? Well I can't. Sure though ignoring all other factors we might easily get to very high real ms (connection, screen, mouse/keyboard, system etc).

That was for monitor lag. Now there is something else, its how much "clear" the image is in FAST movement (eg when you turn the camera quickly in the game). That is where 120Hz+ is useful and simply superior. But is it worth the total washed out colours or bad colour gradings (for those with FRC) of these cheap TN panels? That is something YOU have to decide. Personally I switched to high end IPS 2 years ago with the Asus PA246Q and now bought a new 27". I can tell you that I wouldn't mind the unnoticeable blurring of a high quality IPS, but I am sure than some models may be unbearable. On the other hand, there is just no way I would want to watch games and movies on a 20-year-old looking display. The fact is that on a good IPS, blurriness and bad responsiveness are NOT noticeable./existant. Comparing 10ms to 20ms is like comparing 50FPS to 60FPS.

In fact some IPS screens are using a pixel boosting method to increase the "smoothness" feeling of the 60Hz and it works really really well but it has 1 disadvantage: overshoot. I noticed this immediately on my Iiyama when I turn on this option, it is VERY obvious and annoying, so I keep it off.
 
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you're getting G2G response times muddled up there with display lag Kaynar. There's nothing linking the two. you could easily have a fast TN Film panel with a 2 - 4ms real world G2G response time switching (as measured independently from a manufacturers spec), with a veyr long 100ms of signal processing lag for arguements sake, and a fast IPS panel with 8 - 10ms G2G real world response time and a 0ms siganl processing lag. Or you could have the fast TN Film panel with a 0ms lag and the IPs with 100ms lag. Pixel response times (G2G quoted specs) are indepdendent of any signal processing lag/input lag/display lag or whateve rwe want to call it. Response times dictate how fast the pixels can change from one colour to another and so impact blurring, ghosting etc. Lag is a feature of the internal electronics of the screen creating a feeling of lag between the input (ie your mouse movement) and what you see on the screen.

The two should be considered completely independently. Although having said that, more often than not a screen with a 1ms rated TN Film panel is aimed at gamers primary and so normally a fair amount has been done to reduce the input lag as well - often including bypass modes that you mention. And monitors with IPS panels which are more aimed at general or pro-grade uses tend to have higher lag on average as gaming focus isn't a primary concern. 1 - 2 frames of signal processing lag on an IPs panel is fairly common.

What i'm trying to say though is don't get the two mixed up, you can't compare a fast TN Film panel for gaming against an IPS panel, even if they do have an overall total display lag the same in those kind of comparisons. The lag might be the same, but the response times, refresh rate and other factors will be different.
 
Yes I was just trying to condense what I wanted to write. But the fact is that if a pro gamer buys a screen with a claimed 1ms G2G but then suffers from a 20-30ms input lag, it pretty much defeats the purpose, which is why I think that BOTH have to be taken equally into account and which is why tftcentral displays this graph. G2G response will simply make the image cleaner when moving quickly, but my thought is that a measured 7ms G2G on the Viewsonic VP2770 (IPS) is equally competent with any "gamer screen" 1ms TN panel, its just the 120Hz missing. I am glad that Asus finally took the initiative with the ROG Swift monitor, brings image quality, high resolution and fast G2G one step closer all together, but its a shame they had to include Gsync which obviously increases the panel's price by 200GBP.
 
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yes totally agree you need to consider both the response time, refresh rate and input lag for the overall picture. Although for reasons explained and linked to from my first post a PLS screen like the Viewsonic VP2770-LED won't perform the same as a 1ms G2G TN Film model, even if you did run that at 60Hz only. Pixel response times of IPS and PLS panels can't compete yet with TN Film. A good TN Film can comfortably reach 2 - 4ms in real life for G2G transitions, without overshoot being an issue. a PLS or IPS panel can at best only reach about 8ms. so that produces a real life difference in blurring and the "feel" of the movement.

Add on top of that the 120Hz refresh rate, higher frame rate and any blur reduction type feature you might be able to use from a lot of gaming TN Film screens and you have a significant different. That's all independent of input lag. Although of course if the input lag is then too high, the feeling of lag can become a problem for fast games and FPS.
 
lower response time is generally better for gaming, as it results in less image blur during motion.

however, it usually comes at a cost of colour quality / contrast.

also, a lot of monitors take the response time when they have some kind of "overdrive" feature enabled, which doesn't always look very pretty in games, and it is therefore very difficult to compare monitors from different brands just by looking at the numbers.

best to read some reviews, but in general, you get what you pay for.
 
If a 60Hz monitor is able to consistently produce <8ms response times (going by the original post here) without any overdrive artifacts then you won't see any difference between that and a model with much faster pixel responses. The motion blur caused by the movement of your eyes completely nullifies any advantage that the monitors pixel responsiveness gives you in that scenario. This is explained in the article Baddass linked to.

In reality things are a bit more complex than '1ms' or '6ms' and you find that with WQHD IPS-type models that many of the pixel responses edge past 10ms. TFT Central's recent testing methodology shows this sort of spread. Consider their review of the U2713H, which not only shows some pixel transitions reaching 13ms but also an obvious problem with overshoot/too much overdrive. Some WQHD models are much better balanced in that they don't have an issue with overshoot despite response times being similar overall to those seen on the U2713H. Some of the smaller IPS/PLS models can easily match the low levels of motion blur seen on a 60Hz TN panel in practice, though.
 
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