Really need some help with ethernet cable connectivity?

dvdbunny · 14 Apr 2007 at 15:13

Hi guys

Please help,

I have just bought a pair of Devolo home plugs that is internet through the power lines, it works but the box says it can stream HD content like 1080p HD movies to another room. The thing is it does just that on my second floor if i am on the side of the house near my router downstairs, but when i moved to the other side of the house or to my top floor it can't stream any kind of HD. It's a real shame as i had been waiting for this tech to come out for like 2 years now and i had even discussed it on these boards with people.

I am looking to go for the total solution of having my house wired with an ethernet cable, To get a good signal on my top floor to stream HD 1080p movies what is the maximum length of cable you generally go for?

I don't know if this is true but my mate says that if you want to rip your blueray and HD-DVD movies to a PC and then stream them to another PC then on a ethernet cable it would not be able to play because he says that HD-DVD has a video bit rate off 30 mbps and blueray has a bit rate of 40 mbps, But on all routers nowadays you get 4 T10/100 lan ports so standard cat 5 ethernet gives you 100 mbps and then there is cat 5 e ethernet which gives you gbps (giga bits per second)

But my mate says that there is no point getting cat 5 e ethernet as no router on the market yet has gbps ports, but he says you can still buy them and use them but you just won't get the gbps speeds, it will revert to standard 100 mbps speeds. But i have noticed in cost wise there is not much difference, just like £10 difference from 100 mbps to gbps.

no talk of ripping or warez please

If i was to do the wiring it will probably be better to drill a hole and make the cabling from out side my house and in through the roof that way i can hide the cables behind drain pipes, as if i wanted to do it from within my house i will have cables everywhere, also is it better to buy multiple lengths of cable and have them connected up through a switch or adapter or just have one length of cable, i see you can get 60 meter even 100 meter cables and they don't cost very much, i don't know about the waterproof ones, if you know any links where i can get them, then pelase share?

But will a HD 1080p stream be able to be carried over 60 to 100 metre cable? i ask this because my mate said it may not and that's why it's better to use 2 or 3 shorter cables and link them up with a adapter?

I really hope you guys could help me out with my questions.

Much appreciated

TIA

tolien · 14 Apr 2007 at 15:19

Given it's legally iffy, I'd suggest removing references to ripping DVDs.

dvdbunny said:
I am looking to go for the total solution of having my house wired with an ethernet cable, To get a good signal on my top floor to stream HD 1080p movies what is the maximum length of cable you generally go for?

Provided there's no interference, it should work fine up to 100m.

But my mate says that there is no point getting cat 5 e ethernet as no router on the market yet has gbps ports

Some do, but they're rare, and it doesn't stop you buying a GigE switch.

I also wonder can you get out door waterproof ethernet cat 5 and cat 5 e ethernet cables?

Yup.

if you know any links where i can get them, then pelase share?

There's a good chance they'll be a competitor, so nope.

But will a HD 1080p stream be able to be carried over 60 to 100 metre cable?

I'd expect so.

i ask this because my mate said it may not and that's why it's better to use 2 or 3 shorter cables and link them up with a adapter?

Now that is rubbish.

michael baxter · 14 Apr 2007 at 15:31

Cat5e ethernet cables are good for 100m.

I've wired my home for gigabit ethernet, and I use a standard 100mps router for my internet connection. This then connects to a gigabit switch, which feeds all the domestic PC's and devices. I have no bandwidth problems of any kind.

This works great, but I have noticed that gigabit is a little overkill, it can't be saturated by anything that I do, including multiple video streams. 100mps provides performance that even two PC's would struggle to saturate. However, because of the cost, I'd do gigabit again anyway. The cables are the same, so you could wire for 100mps then swap to a gigabit switch/router at a latter stage with no problems.

Personally, I'd not expect anything but very low bandwidth from the Homeplugs, and I'm not surprised your having problems with high bandwidth video streams.

Go ethernet if you can, you won't regret it. Very cheap, very fast and easy to install. If you do a search on ethernet installation, I'm sure you'll find loads of useful info'. A tip: buy a roll of solid cable (300meters is about £50), RJ45 connectors and a crimp tool, you can then make the cables to your spec'.

My motto of the day: "Ethernet everything"

Caged · 14 Apr 2007 at 16:42

Seconding what it says above, but pay a little bit extra for stranded cable. It's so much nicer to work with, and a lot tougher to snap the conductors.

michael baxter · 14 Apr 2007 at 18:43

Caged said:
Seconding what it says above, but pay a little bit extra for stranded cable. It's so much nicer to work with, and a lot tougher to snap the conductors.

Solid cable is recommend for longer runs of fixed cable, stranded for short patch leads. Not sure if it makes much difference though.

Here is a link to DIY ethernet cabling:

http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/ethernetcables.html

If you do go the DIY route, it is critical you get the colour coding right for the connectors. Just go with the text book colours and you shouldn't have any problems.

dvdbunny · 14 Apr 2007 at 23:41

guys, thanks for all the replies, i will probably make a start sometime soon on the ethernet wiring.

It would be great if other people who stream HD content through ethernet could post their experiences on here, and also home plug power line users streaming HD content.

Oh and tolien, iffy or not ripping DVD's or any media is legal, i guess it depends on the country. it's downloading them that's illegal if you don't own the original. But i would not even know where to download them and i would not want to, i don't like piracy, it kills the film industry, industry insiders work hard to make these movies and downloading them brings great losses. I actually own some blueray and HD-DVD movies, and like my DVD collection i hate swapping each disc just to show some friends some of my titles i would rather see a list on a hard drive and show them clips from each one before we decide to choose which title to sit down and watch for the duration of the next two hours.

Hi michael baxter

Thanks for your reply

I took a look at that link you provided on the DIY ethernet cabling. It mentioned at the top Cat 6 as well. I did a search and read on wikipedia that Cat 6 is also backwards compatible with Cat 5 and Cat 5e. Do you know if it is widely available, i did some searches for it but did not get as many searches as cat 5 and cat 5e. Also is there much of a price difference between cat 5 and cat 5e?

TIA

Fr0dders · 14 Apr 2007 at 23:53

technically speaking the ripping of a DVD is illegal as its against the law to circumvent the copy protection

merely using a program like DVD decrypter is illegal. even if you own the disc. Music CDs are a different kettle of fish, as they have no encryption. As its getting around this thats illegal. not making the backup

dvdbunny · 14 Apr 2007 at 23:55

ok it's probably illegal but like i said i own my collection so i make backups of my own collection. But please let's stay on topic.

Caged · 15 Apr 2007 at 01:05

Cat 6 isn't worth the added hassle it takes to crimp, Cat5e is good for at least gigabit speeds, don't bother spending any more on Cat6.

On the issue of the speeds of wired networks, I've watched content off a DVD that was in the drive of another PC over a 10/100 network before, and you can stream HD movie trailers off the Apple website these days with some connections, I wouldn't worry that any form of modern wired network wouldn't be able to handle the bandwidth needed for shifting HD content around.

With regards to solid vs stranded cables, I think the only reason solid is suggested for permanent installs is because it's a lot cheaper. If you're only laying a small amount then go for the stranded stuff, because it is much better at being bent around corners or moved a lot, whereas the solid stuff tends to break internally.

dvdbunny · 15 Apr 2007 at 02:40

before i get into the cabling i was hoping to look a bit more into what i may be able to get out of home plug power lines. I have moved the devolo home plug upstairs to the side of the house nearest my router which is downstairs. By the way i have the new devolo 200 av starter kit there wall plugs and 2 came in the box. They can give speeds up to 200 mbps. now i am amazed, i have installed the software which installs 4 different softwares for managing the plugs, one of them is the devolo informer which tells me the speeds, right now i am about 20 meters from my router, up one floor, and it currently says 177 mbps upstream rate and 186 mbps downstream rate which is very impressive. I tried all my media files which is on the built in hard drive in my PC downstairs as well on my 500GB hard drive which is connected to my same PC downstairs and all the media files, like H264 1080P and HD MPEG 2 transport streams stream flawlessly through the powerlines, the only problem i get is if you want to jump forward somewhere in the film then framerate crawls for 5-10 seconds and picks up again but the image goes from 16:9 to 4:3 and i am not sure how to fix that but once i exit and replay from beginning everything is okay again, i tested a whole host of HD movies and some won't play anymore if you jump forward into the movie. I went back to my top floor and checked the informer and it said 12 mbps upstream rate and 36 mbps downstream rate, still lot's of problems on top floor like i described in my first post. Then i went into the middle of my house in the area just by my stairs leading to the top floor and tried it in the hallway and another bedroom and the informer said 20 mbps upstream rate and 52 mbps downstream rate but HD media plays with same problems from first post. So i think as i am getting incredible speeds on the side which is 20 meters from my router then i thought what if i just connect a very long cat5 or cat 5 e cable to the home plug and then drill a hole through the wall and make it run outside behind my drain pipes and then make a hole at the top of the building and then lead the cabling through the roof to the top floor, this way i would not have to have all that cabling running around the ground floor. Would this work?

another idea is, can i get another one of these same home plugs and connect it into another wall socket and use it as a range extender or repeater or can i get some kind of switch box to extend the range?

Please if you guys could help on this, much appreciated

Many thanks

ANDARIAL · 15 Apr 2007 at 08:31

Possibly your house wiring is a bit dodgy
If you are confident with electric,check all the connections(might be a lot of sockets mind.Also check ALL plugs on attached appliances

)for loose screws on the terminals
try disconnecting things like fridges,WM etc to test

dvdbunny · 15 Apr 2007 at 11:35

Hi thanks for the reply

My house is quite old, and we have a mixture of old and new wall sockets. I have the usual kitchen appliances, like toaster, microwave, fridge freezer, kettle, etc etc. Then TV, computer, hairdryer, lamps all plugged in and a load of other general electrical products plugged in. But in some parts of my house i have 5 socket extenders, and some of these extenders are connected right on top of the wall socket, and some are power surge protectors. But on these kind of wall sockets i have tried the devolo home plug and i get absolutely no signal, i have not tried them in the socket extenders yet and there is no point because they say it lowers the bandwidth speed. I believe the wall sockets that i have tried on my top floor which is giving me the speeds of 36 mbps downstream rate, is because these are the sockets that are not connected to the main cabling of my house which is part of the power line grid. So the top floor sockets must have been like an extender as when they installed them in i don't think the circuitry that they are on is new and not sure if the cabling is connected to the main cable i think it branches off it which is why i have a slower speed up there, that is a theory, or it could be down to the thick walls i have which is interfering, that is probably more likely.

dvdbunny · 15 Apr 2007 at 11:35

ANDARIAL

forgot some thing, what do you mean by WM?

Phemo · 15 Apr 2007 at 11:38

dvdbunny said:
ANDARIAL

forgot some thing, what do you mean by WM?

Not sure myself but I'll take a guess at washing machine

ANDARIAL · 15 Apr 2007 at 11:50

yeah mate i mean`t washing machine
by the sound of it your wiring is to blame,obviously too expensive to have a rewire just for the movie watching.
cheapest option sounds like cat5e cable runs(or possible can you put a new length of power cable from the mains box upstairs to the pc?)probally cheaper to just cat5e it though

edit:if you are comfortable with electrics you could try tightening the grub screws on ALL the sockets.If you electricute yourself don`t come running/crawling to me

michael baxter · 15 Apr 2007 at 12:47

Caged said:
Cat 6 isn't worth the added hassle it takes to crimp, Cat5e is good for at least gigabit speeds, don't bother spending any more on Cat6.

Agreed, Cat5e is good for gigabit

Caged said:
With regards to solid vs stranded cables, I think the only reason solid is suggested for permanent installs is because it's a lot cheaper. If you're only laying a small amount then go for the stranded stuff, because it is much better at being bent around corners or moved a lot, whereas the solid stuff tends to break internally.

Solid is recommended for fixed installation because it has improved electrical characteristics, this will allow longer lengths of cable to be used without problem. However, this improvement may be marginal, but it is the theory.

Tightly bending ethernet cables is not recommended either, especially for gigabit, IIRC a 6cm radius is the minimum or something like that. Again, this may be marginal, but these are the recommendations for a trouble free network.

ANDARIAL · 15 Apr 2007 at 15:23

Tightly bending ethernet cables is not recommended either, especially for gigabit, IIRC a 6cm radius is the minimum or something like that. Again, this may be marginal, but these are the recommendations for a trouble free network

Is this because of the speed of the data throughput?i.e. any sharper and the data shoots off the cable at the corner?