Recommended method to split an HDMI output to video and audio? One to TV and one to Amp?

[NeilF]

I want to consider splitting the HDMI output of a Shield TV so video (& audio?) goes to my TV, and it also goes to my amp solely for the audio to be used.

ie: So HDR or Dolby vision video can go to my TV, and then say Dolby Atmos audio can go to my amp.

Can a simply HDMI splitter simply duplicate one HDMI output to two?

Or do you need something far more expensive like the Fury AVR?


ps: TV is an LG E7 which happily accepts the likes of dolby vision and audio, but obviously cannot then ARC the audio to an Amp without down grading it.

 

[lucid]

If it was possible to do this with a simple 4K splitter then there'd be no market for the audio de-embedders sold today.

You're trying to keep your costs down, which I understand. But there's a problem here. A cheap single-output UHD player can be had for £120-£130. Dual output players start at around £180. However, the additional hardware to split and extract an ATMOS capable audio signal isn't available for anything like the £60 difference.

In fact, at under £60, you're probably going to find you get audio out on either coaxial or optical, and that means you're limited to lossy DD/DTS audio at best. No Dolby True HD. No DTS-MA. No Dolby ATMOS. No DTS-X.

Buying a player with a dual output turns out to be the cheapest option because it's all done inside the machine.

Now here's some good news. If you go for a Panasonic player then the output connecting to the TV has both picture and sound. This means for casual viewing you can watch via the TV speakers. There's an option in the setup menu to select Video Only or Video + Audio for the connection to the TV. You want this second setting.

The second output options will change according to how the first one is set. When you select V&A for Output 1, then Output 2 is limited to Audio Only. That's perfect for your because it means you get HD audio and ATMOS to the AV receiver.

Job done.

 

[NeilF]

Makes sense if a Panasonic Bluray player can offer both bluray disc and Plex playback. Excellent!

And a Panasonic player can offer a good Plex client?

 

[lucid]

Makes sense if a Panasonic Bluray player can offer both bluray disc and Plex playback. Excellent!

And a Panasonic player can offer a good Plex client?

Thats a lot to put on the shoulders of a simple player.

The Shield or TV don't already do this?

.

 

[NeilF]

Thats a lot to put on the shoulders of a simple player.

The Shield or TV don't already do this?

.

I currently use my LG TV for Plex, but it throws a bit of a hissy fit with larger files and definately doesn't cope with the likes of Dolby Atmos in large files (it stutters). Add to this my Onkyo 646 amp handles the likes of Dolby Atmos sound, but won't pass through stuff like Dolby Vision.

So given I want a 4K bluray player and to look at a better Plex player, if there isn't a single unit that can do both, then it looks like:-
1) A new 4k Bluray player.
2) An NVidia Shield TV.

With both of those HDMI'd straight to my TV, and my TV HDMI ARC'd to my amp, my understanding is then, the more sexy sound formats would be down graded which leads to the question, so what? Would the difference in audio be tangible.

If we assume yes, then this leads to:-
1) The Bluray player being dual HDMI output, one to TV and one to amp.
2) Something like a Fury AVR on the NVidia Shield so we have again, dual HDMI output, one to TV and one to amp.



Obviously if a dual output Bluray player could simply run Plex well (heck my phone can), then voila!

 

[lucid]

With both of those HDMI'd straight to my TV, and my TV HDMI ARC'd to my amp, my understanding is then, the more sexy sound formats would be down graded which leads to the question, so what? Would the difference in audio be tangible.

BIB: This has already been covered, in plenty enough detail to make the point with crystal clarity. I'm not going to have you waste my time retyping the same information. Here's your previous thread on exactly this point:
Looking to upgrade to a 4K Bluray: Bluray -> Amp -> TV, or Bluray -> TV -> Amp? | Overclockers UK Forums

The only things to add are
1) that if your speakers are crap, or you have them set up in a stupid way, then you're throwing away a lot of the benefit of your £500 AV receiver

2) Room acoustics make a bigger difference than the gear. If your room lacks any soft furnishing i.e. it has tiled floors, lots of glass, large expanses of painted walls, then even the best gear is going to sound crap

3) If you have some sort of severe hearing impairment or you listen at a volume level lower than a gnats fart ( ) then all bets are off

Depending on your hardware you might be able to test lossless HD audio versus DD/DTS for yourself. A lot of AV amps allow both HMDI and coaxial/optical to be assigned to the same input. This then allows selection of either HDMI (HD audio) or coax/optical (lossy DD/DTS) on the fly. Older Onkyos used to have this feature. I haven't done much with newer Onkyos to know if they've retained this in the lower and midrange machines. There may also be the simpler option of giving priority to optical/coaxial. Your Onkyo has this. Naturally both these avenues require a BD player with an optical or coaxial output too or comparing the HDMI feed via your amp to HDMI direct to the TV and audio return channel or optical out to the AV amp.

What I hear when I do the A/B comparison is that DD/DTS are more congested and have a harder edge to the sound. It's a more closed-in acoustic, like the room got smaller. With HD everything ie sweeter, easier to follow and has more space and precision to the placement of sound. If you can't hear the same then see points 1, 2 and 3.

 

[NeilF]

Well, if I go dual HDMI bluray (which I have to really anyway), and then compare its audio on a bluray (thru the amp) to a version of the same film from Plex (TV --ARC--> Amp). If I notice a difference worth speaking of, then consider upgrading the Plex route.

 

[lucid]

Comparing audio from Plex? Where has that idea come from?

Your initial question was about the comparison between audio from a UHD BD going via the TV to the amp compared to audio processed directly by the amp. It was not "let's compare audio from Plex to audio from UHD BD". Don't start moving the goal posts. If you're going to start that bollix then I'm bailing and you can go find another way to sort yourself out.

How Plex audio will sound depends on the rip, and the play chain involved. That's not the same question as "do I lose any quality just picking up sound from the TV audio out?"

 

[NeilF]

My notion of upgrading Plex is to potentially upgrading its audio. ie: From my TV it can't handle Atmos (stutters) but can happily handle DTS (MA) etc, with it over ARC to my Amp.

To upgrade Plex, we're talking Nvidia TV plus a Fury AVR, which is obviously a significant cost (£200+) and obviously not as user friendly as simply turning up a TV (for Plex) and then the Amp for ARC audio.

So, the real question is will the improvement be worthwhile (to my ears/equipment). So given if I want to improve my Bluray player anyway, if I get a dual HDMI version, and find a film I have on 4K bluray say with Atmos sound, and then compare that to the same film on Plex with say DTS or the like, and I notice little/no difference, then from an audio POV, why upgrade for Plex audio support

 

[lucid]

My notion of upgrading Plex is to potentially upgrading its audio. ie: From my TV it can't handle Atmos (stutters) but can happily handle DTS (MA) etc, with it over ARC to my Amp.

Let me just ask you to clarify here; are you saying that you can get DTS-MA via normal ARC?

Or are you saying that your Onkyo TX-NR646 has eARC?

Like I said before, I haven't done much with Onkyo the last few years. The reason is their overheating issue. So I am awaiting your reply with interest.

 

[NeilF]

No, I don't believe the 646 has eARC.

All I can say is via ARC from the E7 TV to the Amp:-
- The E7 will happily pass Dolby Atmos from Netflix/Disney+ etc. But my understanding is this is a lossy variant of (true) Atmos?
- Plex on the E7 will play DTS and DTS MA audio tracks without transcoding. Atmos tracks cause transcoding and generally stuttering.

Does that help clarify?

ps: Interesting you mention heat. I have a cooling fan on mine powered by USB to keep it cool when it's on.

 

[lucid]

No, I don't believe the 646 has eARC.


All I can say is via ARC from the E7 TV to the Amp:-

- The E7 will happily pass Dolby Atmos from Netflix/Disney+ etc. But my understanding is this is a lossy variant of (true) Atmos?

Yes. DD+ with ATMOS matrixed in is within the bandwidth limits of ARC.In fact, if it wasn't for licencing restrictions, you could have DD+ ATMOS via optical or coax too.

Plex on the E7 will play DTS and DTS MA audio tracks without transcoding. Atmos tracks cause transcoding and generally stuttering.

The source file might carry DTS-MA audio, and with it core DTS which is how hardware compatibility is handled, but that doesn't mean that the signal going from the TV to the amp is DTS-MA.


So, what have you seen on the amp that leads you to believe it is receiving and processing DTS-MA from a Plex file played on the LG OLED and fed to your 646 via standard ARC?

 

[NeilF]

The source file might carry DTS-MA audio, and with it core DTS which is how hardware compatibility is handled, but that doesn't mean that the signal going from the TV to the amp is DTS-MA

Indeed not... I have no idea what the TV is doing to supply audio to the amp over ARC. With Plex, if I play an AC3-5.1 (Dolby Digital?) track I can see the amp detect that, and if I play a DTS or even a DTS-HD MA 7.1 track (in Plex) the DTS symbol on the amp comes on. I assume the TV is down sampling the audio to DTS (for DTS-HD MA)?

Either way, surely the same experiment I mentioned before still stands surely? If I get say a Panasonic DP-UB450EB which seems to be a good dual HDMI 4k bluray player (with all the bells and whistles I surely need), and then play a disc on that with say Dolby Atmos (HDMI straight to amp from bluray player), and then the same movie via Plex say with DTS (or similar) via ARC and do a sound comparison. If I hear little difference, why bother upgrading my Plex solution? But if I head a nice difference, then there's the option to go NVidia TV + HD Fury AVR to sex up my Plex.

 

[Psycho Sonny]

Why can't you just buy a new avr and sell your old one to recoup some of the costs?

 

[jpaul]

btw -

And a Panasonic player can offer a good Plex client?

pretty sure they don't, as the hevc(4k blue-ray codec) decoder hardware is only available for physical disc playback, not dnla or plex clients, this put me off them, as any kind of general streamed media player. you'd need a horrible transcode somewhere (some earlier threads on this)

Or do you need something far more expensive like the Fury AVR?

I had thought there might be cheaper alternatives now, hdcp strippers, which would duplicate/split the hdmi, so that you could send audio formats that were within the bandwidth of what a 2.0 AVR could process , after the encryption it may not support, was removed. ... but haven't researched it recently.