Recon. Engines in a Mk4 Golf

Sacred · 5 Apr 2006 at 09:42

Hi

I'm not thinking about doing it ATM but I'm writing because I just want to know whats involved.

Say I had a 1.4 or 1.6, and wanted to get a 1.8t or 2.0t in my golf, aside from re-registering with the DVLA what is the likely work that would have to be done?

I mean, I'd get the engine fitted, but is there anything else that is compulsory when doing this?
I'm just a noob when it comes to mechanics so I just want some info.

Thanks for any help.

paradigm · 5 Apr 2006 at 09:49

Would it not be similarly priced (taking into consideration the cost of the engine, cost of labour, increased cost in insurance due to modified car status, etc etc) to sell yours, and get a 1.8T golf? :confused:

(and this way, also getting most likely better brakes and suspension set-up to go with it)

Doesn't seem to me that someone who is "a noob when it comes to mechanics" should even really contemplate it?

Sacred · 5 Apr 2006 at 09:53

I just want to know how it would be done, not the alternatives. Thanks anyway

Firestar_3x · 5 Apr 2006 at 09:58

Problem is its not just the engine, if your comming from a base model golf the loom might be diff, the fuel pump might not be up to the job, trying to stop the car will be scary, you will need to change the ECU along with the engine.

Its one heck of a task, a simple drop in engine change for the same spec engine aint that hard if you have the right tools, but changing to a diff lump will be too much hassle will cost too much and won't add to the value of your car at all.

paradigm · 5 Apr 2006 at 10:00

Sacred said:
I just want to know how it would be done.

You would need to find an engine first off, and the 1.8T and especially 2.0T units do not come that cheaply used. You would most likely need the entire wiring loom (as the 1.4 and 1.6 will be massively different), the ECU, and major ancillaries from the 1.8T (or 2.0T) block. You will also need the exhaust (seeing as its going to have to spool up a turbo, compared to the NASP 1.4/1.6).

Its possible that you would want to use the gearbox from the 1.8T also, seeing as the ratios for the 1.4 would be massively different (even assuming they both mate together). Possibly also upgrading the drive-shafts to accomodate the extra power and torque.

Your going to want the braking system from the 1.8T (or something of greater power), as the 1.4's brakes would most likely not be too hot at stopping the vehicle from some of the speeds the 1.8T can propell the car to (also the 1.8T probably weighs more too).

In addition to the brakes your probably going to want the wheels (or at least new wheels that offer a wider tread), as your going to want to be able to put this newly aquired horsepower on the road.

Hope that helps.

Malachy · 5 Apr 2006 at 10:15

i always giggle a little at these
"OMFG you will need bigger brakes because of the extra speed"
a 1.4/1.6 golf will happily see close to 100mph so will brake from 100mph too as with 70mph and so on, the speed has nothing to do with whether you need to upgrade the brakes since brakes do not know how fast you got to the speed you are doing and would they really care how much time it took you to get to 60mph? no not at all they only care about how much weight you have and how fast you are doing when you brake.
However, with a more powerfull engine you increase the torque, this will try to keep the wheels turning while braking, thus your brakes will need to fight against this to slow down. THIS is the reason you need to upgrade brakes not because of "OMFG YOU WILL BE GOING SO MUCH FASTER!!!11111" or because you want to decrease your stopping distances.
end of whinge

as for the upgrade sure do it if you want but from what i hear vag 1.8t conversions are a bit of a pig, the ecu will need to be unlcoked and tbh your proberly better of running aftermarket ecu (so in region of £600 for a cheapish kit)due to the nature of it needing to be mated to the dashboard electronics of the 1.8t then your looking at gearbox /radiator/intercooler/pipework (this can be v expensive (circa £200)and often overlooked especially in turbo conversions)/then the engine and that will not be cheap......:/
i personally have done a few conversions in my time but i would not waste the time money and effort to do it on a car that can be bought like it. eg atm i am putting a 8v turbo engine into my 306 cab, this was never a marketted car so i cannto sell mine and buy one like it, same with pug 205 mi16 conversions. i would do one of those, however i would not get a 1.1 205 and drop a 1.9 gti lump into it. Is not cost effective and unless your doing something that cannot be bought you will spend way over the odds and not gain anything on resale.

Bill101 · 5 Apr 2006 at 10:18

you may also need to uprate the springs at the front due to the extra weight.Anti roll bars would need to be added(I know the TD did not have any) or at least uprated.Also Steering Geometry may be slightly different.
It's getting expensive now and then you have to convince an insurance company to take your money

Firestar_3x · 5 Apr 2006 at 10:37

Malachy said:
However, with a more powerfull engine you increase the torque, this will try to keep the wheels turning while braking, thus your brakes will need to fight against this to slow down. THIS is the reason you need to upgrade brakes not because of "OMFG YOU WILL BE GOING SO MUCH FASTER!!!11111" or because you want to decrease your stopping distances.
end of whinge

What has increased engine torque got to do with stopping the car, you don't press the accelerator and brake toghther, you must be talking about engine braking, an 8v unit will slow a car down faster than a 16v unit but since both these units are 16v i doubt that the engine braking will be much different.

Manufacturers fit bigger brakes to bigger models for several reasons, aesthetics comes into it, how the car is going to be driven is another, those weedy brakes on the 1.4 will encounter some serious fade if you take it down a country road with a 1.8t unit under the bonnet.

[huzeeee] · 5 Apr 2006 at 11:04

Sacred said:
I just want to know how it would be done, not the alternatives. Thanks anyway

Hmm, new brakes, new gearbox and maybe new drive shafts. The brakes have to be better to cope with the extra speed of a 1.8 t. I doubt its hard to do, you may need to weld in mounts, and have a jibble around with the engine. Still whats the point,engine transplants should be **** easy for a quick job, or put a much more benneficial different engine.

No swearing. Read the FAQs. FF.

paradigm · 5 Apr 2006 at 11:10

[huzeeee] said:
Still whats the point,engine transplants should be **** easy for a quick job, or put a much more benneficial different engine.

Well, that part of the post makes no sense. The 1.8T is a "much more beneficial" engine. Tunable to 260~ BHP with little more than breathing and a re-map.

And there is no such things as a "quick job" when it comes to engine transpants, expecially not if you want the work to be decent.

DaveyD · 5 Apr 2006 at 11:16

[huzeeee] said:
Hmm, new brakes, new gearbox and maybe new drive shafts. The brakes have to be better to cope with the extra speed of a 1.8 t. I doubt its hard to do, you may need to weld in mounts, and have a jibble around with the engine. Still whats the point,engine transplants should be **** easy for a quick job, or put a much more benneficial different engine.

No swearing. Read the FAQs. FF.

Surely the only reason brakes would really need to be uprated would be the increase in weight of the car, if a new engine does increase the weight that is. As has been said above, if both cars are going the same speed, and both weighed the same, why would the bigger engined car need better brakes?

paradigm · 5 Apr 2006 at 11:29

DaveyD said:
Surely the only reason brakes would really need to be uprated would be the increase in weight of the car, if a new engine does increase the weight that is. As has been said above, if both cars are going the same speed, and both weighed the same, why would the bigger engined car need better brakes?

Quite simply, car with 0-60 of almost 1/2 the timeframe of another will most likely be hitting faster speeds more often. Although the smaller brakes on the 1.4 Golf would stop the car from the same top-speed, it would take a lot fewer number of harsh braking from high-speed to start to cause the brakes to fade due to heat. It also wouldn't stop anywhere near as quickly as a car with larger/more powerful brakes.

burns · 5 Apr 2006 at 11:30

The reason I've always heard quoted for upgrading the brakes as well is with your new engine your going to be going into corners faster, but taking them at the same speed. Hence you'll have more speed to scrub off going into corners. This assumes your accelerating whenever you aren't braking so more relevant to a track situation, but could be relevant on some twistier roads.

It has nothing to do with having to slow the engine down.

MrSix · 5 Apr 2006 at 11:39

As has already been stated, there's a lot of work involved and everybody who has asked this question over at the ukmkiv forums gets told the same thing - sell up and buy a 1.8T instead.

You end up paying the same, if not more than you would if you just bit the bullet and upgraded anyway.

DaveyD · 5 Apr 2006 at 13:44

paradigm said:
Quite simply, car with 0-60 of almost 1/2 the timeframe of another will most likely be hitting faster speeds more often. Although the smaller brakes on the 1.4 Golf would stop the car from the same top-speed, it would take a lot fewer number of harsh braking from high-speed to start to cause the brakes to fade due to heat. It also wouldn't stop anywhere near as quickly as a car with larger/more powerful brakes.

Ah, makes sense

chopchop · 5 Apr 2006 at 14:01

one stop from 100-0 on any low perf. car with avg brakes will fade them to the point where your pedal sinks into the floor.

as for the original post: its not worth the bother, changing all the suspension, brakes, hubs, shafts, wiring e.t.c

chopchop · 5 Apr 2006 at 14:06

Malachy said:
i always giggle a little at these
"OMFG you will need bigger brakes because of the extra speed"
a 1.4/1.6 golf will happily see close to 100mph so will brake from 100mph too as with 70mph and so on, the speed has nothing to do with whether you need to upgrade the brakes since brakes do not know how fast you got to the speed you are doing and would they really care how much time it took you to get to 60mph? no not at all they only care about how much weight you have and how fast you are doing when you brake.
However, with a more powerfull engine you increase the torque, this will try to keep the wheels turning while braking, thus your brakes will need to fight against this to slow down. THIS is the reason you need to upgrade brakes not because of "OMFG YOU WILL BE GOING SO MUCH FASTER!!!11111" or because you want to decrease your stopping distances.
end of whinge

ahaha like i said crappy brakes maybe able to stop you once from 100, but they will fade like ****!!
faster cars have better brakes so they can slow down from high speeds more often, without fading.

oh and a bigger engine with more torque WOULD HELP YOU slow down due to better engine braking