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Redundancy

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Camalot, Jun 17, 2019.

  1. Camalot

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 7, 2005

    Posts: 6,625

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Hi guys,

    I got pulled into a meeting this morning and said my estates team are being restructured, but they were pretty vague in terms of when this might happen.

    They put a redundancy package in front of me and said they are removing my role, and they will enhance the pay off with an extra 2.5k if i accept it this week. If i don't accept it this week, i will lose the extra pay and get made redundant anyway a few months down the line.

    I left the meeting with no paper work, no minutes and no letters.

    I have not been through this process before and to be honest feel a bit pressured / backed into a corner into taking this pay off.

    I am speaking to my union in the morning, but wondered if anyone has had any experience with this, as I'm really worried?!
     
  2. Dis86

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 23, 2011

    Posts: 20,039

    Location: Northern England

    So you've got a few months of work potentially if you don't accept? Is that worth more than 2.5k? If so work the extra months using the time to get a job lined up for when the unfortunate redundancy hits. It doesn't sound like they've followed the standard legal redundancy process however.
     
  3. Jimbeam3678

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 8, 2002

    Posts: 16,872

    Location: North Yorkshire

    Smells of a good old compromise payment!
     
  4. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 917

    Depends, how long you've worked there, how much you're paid and how much in total they are going to give you, oh also any paid holidays?
     
  5. jaybee

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 10, 2008

    Posts: 4,825

    It's not that unusual for companies to make offers like that. They usually are a type of offer that has a name I can't remember, whereby you basically sign off that you won't sue them, and will leave quietly with the money offered. I think it's generally termed a "settlement" offer. Not uncommon to through in extras like that to get it done quickly and quietly without all the legal and long drawn out process. Often it pays to just take the offer and move on with your life. It wouldn't be unreasonable to - assuming you do the math and make sure it is worthwhile - take the offer, or, better still, haggle and ask for extra and then you will sign today. You might be surprised how easily they will oblige often.
     
  6. mrk

    Man of Terrible Jokes

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 83,936

    Location: South Coast

    You've got a union, they will advise you best and will fight for your rights. 2.5k is a lot of money, but if the union is strong, then you may even get more. Use their advice.

    On one hand if you leave now with 2.5k, then you need to immediately start looking and have lined up a new job unless your base package is of a considerable amount anyway.

    Otherwise you have several months to line something up and at least be comfortable knowing you've got a new job when it happens.
     
  7. Camalot

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 7, 2005

    Posts: 6,625

    Location: Wolverhampton

    To put more context and figures to it, this is what they offered me.

    I think statutory I get 5 weeks as I've been there 5 years, so about 2.5k

    They offered 3k additional.

    Then a bonus extra 2.5k if I accept this week, if I don't they will make me redundant a few months later anyway minus the 2.5k bonus.

    In other words there trying to get me to go quick and quiet with a 2.5k incentive.

    To feel comfortable I'd like 6months salary in my bank so there 4k short.

    Also add they couldn't actually give me a timeline on the main redudency, so could be another 6 month's ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  8. Weazle

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jan 15, 2007

    Posts: 1,066

    Its 2.5K on top of the statutory redundancy package? If so that is probably an extra month, which is actually alright.

    I believe all UK companies have to follow standard redundancy procedures, which can include offering a compromise agreement with differing terms than standard but they must pay for you to get legal advice to understand what rights you are giving up.

    A few links:
    https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/redundancy-pay
    https://www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/en/articles/your-legal-rights-when-facing-redundancy
     
  9. SpeedFreak

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 14, 2002

    Posts: 6,687

    Location: Bristol

    When you accept, how much time until you leave? How quickly could you find a new job?
     
  10. Quartz

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 7,310

    Location: Aberdeen

    First off, this is nothing personal, it's just business.

    You need the details. Particularly with regard to unemployment benefits. Say something like, "Thank you for the offer. It sounds a bit low in principle but I'd like to see the details on paper and work through the numbers. I also need to talk to my partner." Just as they are making a business decision, so must you. When I went through something similar, the financial offer was not negotiable, but yours might be. There's nothing to be lost by asking for an extra small amount.

    With regards to your 6 month buffer, remember to account for cancelling things like Sky and otherwise reducing your outgoings.

    It's a lot easier to find a job when you already have one. If you're not going to be eligible for unemployment benefit for a while, perhaps you could suggest a zero-hour contract for a month or so so you can truthfully say you are employed?
     
  11. Camalot

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 7, 2005

    Posts: 6,625

    Location: Wolverhampton

    Am I entitled to any benefit to cover any unemployment time if I take this offer?

    I've applied for 6 jobs ready but who knows could take ages!

    I'd be expected to leave July 19th
     
  12. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,272

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    This sounds a lot like a settlement agreement, which if it is then you should have 10 days (not working) to consider the offer. Ask them for the offer in writing. You need to understand exactly what the different amounts are covering, as some may not be subject to tax and national insurance but others may be.

    Your entitlement to State benefits should not be impacted other than by your increase in capital following the payments.

    You should also consider negotiating and agreeing your future employment reference.
     
  13. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 39,014

    Why would they give you an additional 3k too in a few months if they're basically forcing you to accept it? Like are you sure you'd not just get statutory then - seems rather a pointless waste of 3k on their part if you're not going quietly.

    I guess the main thing is how quickly can you get another job - how in demand are your skills - do you know this? Do you have any recruiters on linked in etc.. you've kept in contact with and who you could hit up quickly... in which case it could be worth taking the extra cash... otherwise I'd weigh it up against the additional leverage that not needing to accept a job right away, being able to hold out apply for another vacancy that "a few months" gives you. Obviously you don't then get any redundancy pay if you quit on your own but if it means you're able to get a better paid/more suitable role and/or avoid a period of unemployment that might well cost more then meh...
     
  14. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,283

    Location: Cambridge

    If your employer is asking you to leave, take the money and find a new job.
     
  15. Slade2

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 14, 2011

    Posts: 964

    Location: Stafford

    A standard settlement agreement. These normally carry an obligation to you that you have to obtain legal advice on the agreement which forms part of the agreement (but at no or limited cost to yourself) i.e its invalid if you don`t get legal advice. I have worked for companies that used settlement agreements when they shut down a whole department. The fact they did not give you any paper work is probably a good thing for now as they are probably expecting you to go back and ask for more. In my experience all of the paperwork is drawn up prior to the meeting and you can take it away and you are then normally given 10 days to make a decision. The settlement agreement is basically an enhanced payment to you in return for you signing away your rights under any employment claims you might have against your employer and avoiding the long drawn out process that redundancy can take. In most cases there will also be some form of Non Disclosure agreement that you will have to sign basically saying that you will go quietly and not **** off your employer to anyone, hence the reason for the additional money offered. So, go back to them tell them you have considered there initial offer to be as you have stated a little lower than you feel comfortable with and that you feel if the offer was enhanced upwards then you would be in a position where you could give it more consideration.
     
  16. Deaths_Calling

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 10, 2012

    Posts: 330

    It's classed as unfair dismissal if they made you redundant without a consultation period and then after that your contractual notice period + your actual redundency payment. This payment is to try and shorten the process. If they aren't doing this all properly then it's a settlement package to try and get you to leave earlier, shortcutting the legal process.
    I can't remember exactly what the notice period normally is but look into above and you can calculate what you'd get if you didn't take their offer.

    Often with these things they are just trying their luck to see who will bite
     
  17. Deaths_Calling

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 10, 2012

    Posts: 330

    There's no way that's within the consultation period + your contractual notice period which is a minimum of a week for each of your 5 years.

    This is unfair dismissal and a package to try and pay you off. As mentioned above, you should receive a copy of the offer and be required to consult a solicitor which the package will cover the costs of.
    https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/consultation
     
  18. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 39,014

    Why does the consultation period come into play if he voluntarily accepts it? How is it unfair dismissal if he agrees to it? The whole point there is that some staff members might be fine with taking the cash, going quickly and just picking up a job elsewhere.

    Alternatively he has an unknown redundancy at some point in the near future where he works through some sort of consultation period (we don't know how many staff are being made redundant and therefore whether this will be fixed at 30 days min or whatever etc..) and then presumably the statutory minimum of 5 weeks pay as he hasn't accepted the offer to go earlier on. He can of course look for other jobs in this time but if he gets a job offer before the unknown redundancy starts he might well end up having to just hand in his notice as per usual and forego any redundancy pay off... alternatively he can sit around and wait for a few months for the process to start and then start applying for jobs, I can certainly see why taking the money now (inc the extra money), having some certainty and just applying for jobs immediately would have some appeal for some people and could well be optimal in some cases.
     
  19. Camalot

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 7, 2005

    Posts: 6,625

    Location: Wolverhampton

    What I need to consider is if I take the pay off that will get me through 4 months of unemployment until the money runs out.

    I will earn more money by staying in employment as it doesn't look likely that the estates team restructure will happen in the next 4 months, but that is a risk id be taking I suppose.

    I'm tempted to ask for 6 month's pay and I'll go quietly tomorrow.

    FYI I'm a Facilities Manager
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2019
  20. Deaths_Calling

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 10, 2012

    Posts: 330

    It's not unfair dismissal if he agrees to it or if they do a consultation period and he is employed for his notice period.