Reflecting on Reflection *Warning - Long Post*

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
15,177
Lo all,

I promised everyone I would do a write-up explaining my entry into last months competition Reflection so here it is:

reflect.jpg



Background

First of all, I’m going to provide a bit of background information about myself which will put what is to follow into context.

I’m a 23 year old Graphic Designer and a year ago I graduated from the BA(Hons) Graphic Design course at The Arts Institute at Bournemouth. Thanks to my parents, I have been immersed in Fine Art and Design culture all of my life and thanks to a certain secondary-school teacher, I have been formally studying Art and Design since I was 15.

Ever since my Fine Art GCSE, I’ve used photography to engage, inform and express myself artistically. During my Art Foundation course (between A-levels and University) I was introduced to Black & White SLRs and Darkroom processes. This experience led me to buy a dSLR and get involved with the OCUK Photography section.


Technical vs. Artistic

I have noticed, both in the Photography Section of OCUK and in Real Life™ that there is a rift between photographers. There are the purists who seek perfection through the ‘rules’ of photography and then there are the artists who challenge them. However, (this a bit of a cliché) you usually have to learn the rules before you can know how to successfully bend (or break) them.

Because of my background, I always approach the photography competition from an artistic perspective. I like to challenge the briefs and I always try to be original. I’m don’t try to be facetious or different for the sake of it but equally I don’t want to re-take cliché or what I would consider ‘obvious’ photographs when answering the theme.

That’s not to say that I don’t appreciate a well-taken photograph. I’m not trying to mask a lack of technical skill with pretentious, artistic ********. ;)
I just believe that there’s more to photography than technical perfection.

I also don't want to follow the herd. Everyone has done the headlights-over-the-motorway long-exposure or the make-water-look-like-clouds shots.
I'm not saying I haven't taken some of these myself, I'm just saying I think the competition should be used to push the boundaries a bit.


Concepts

One of the problems with many of my entries into this competition is that you’re not allowed to attach an essay explaining why and what you’ve done (kind of like I’m doing now). :p

The rules clearly state:
Your photograph should represent the theme without further commentary.
(That’s why I waited until the results were out before writing this post.)

During my degree we were taught that the concept is more important than the finished piece. I would argued that this is usually not true in the real world but at degree level, it gets the students to think about why they are doing something rather than just making everything look pretty. Many of my photographs are conceptual and it is very hard to convey much, if any, of that under-pinned thinking through one final image.

I’ve come to accept that because of this, I’m never going to score that highly in the competition (as we can see from “Reflections”). :p
However, I’m going to continue to work this way because I enjoy it and the competition gives me a reason to continue taking photos.


The Concept

For this photograph I wanted to do more than just shoot a shiny thing.

Therefore, I decided to focus on a different definition of reflection:

re●flec●tion
noun
serious thought or consideration : he doesn’t get much time for reflection
● an idea about something, esp. one that is written down or expressed : reflections on human destiny and art

An artist I admire very much is the abstract expressionist Mark Rothko.
I’ve stared at his paintings for hours during my life-time and this has provided me with plenty of time for reflection.

This is an example of his work for those who aren’t familiar with him. This particular painting is N°14, 1960 exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art in San Francisco.

14.jpg


I wanted to try and replicate the sense of depth and colour that Rothko achieves with paint but through a photograph.

Over the last few years I’ve been building a collection of close-up metal abstracts (i’ve entered a few into past competitions) and this seemed like another good opportunity to expand my collection. Here’s one you might recognise.

blue_low.jpg



The Execution

I’ve just bought myself a new guitar, a Republic Resonator, steel guitar to play Delta-slide. Seeing as it is so shiny, I thought I could kill two birds with one stone and for-fill the traditional definition of Reflection and achieve my conceptual idea.

resonator.jpg


However, I needed to try and capture the depth of colour for my Rothkoesque photograph.

What I decided to do was add coloured gels to my flashgun. As you can see from this picture I cut strips of red and blue gels and laid them over the flash. I actually held them in place with my sto-fen-omni diffuser rather than a rubber-band but I did this for illustrative purposes.

flash.jpg


I actually overlaid the gels in the middle of the flash so that I had red, purple and blue light emanating from the source.

This was the best ‘out-of-camera’ shot that I achieved.

lightroom.jpg


You can see where I cropped this to get my final entry.


Conclusion

There’s not a lot more to say. Regarding the competition, I’m a victim of my own ego.
I appreciate that few people would have been able to extract even 1% of the above from the image I entered without further commentary. As a result I’m not complaining about the score I was given or the comments the photo received:

Well, it's certainly different. Sorry, but without something in there, I'm really not sure what you want us to make of it. How am I even to know that it's a reflection?

I don't think I get this. It's some sort of abstract but it's not clear what it's meant to be. I'm not much of a fan of it as an abstract either really, it's too vague with nothing to grasp.

This one is too abstract for me its really just lost all relevance.

I am a little bit disappointed that there’s not more love for abstract photography in here but I understand that it’s all subjective.

By writing this post I wanted to show everyone that while the final image might not have looked like much (or anything for that matter) there was a lot of thought, experimentation and passion behind it. Ultimately, in my eyes, that is what this competition is all about.

Panzer
 
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One of the problems with many of my entries into this competition is that you’re not allowed to attach an essay explaining why and what you’ve done (kind of like I’m doing now). :p

The rules clearly state:

(That’s why I waited until the results were out before writing this post.)

That's all it is though, I wouldn't take it to heart.

The OcUK photography competition does require some 'obviousness' (is that even a word?) from the entries to ensure that the theme is clearly met.

It's nice to see the thinking behind your photograph though :)
 
I’m not trying to mask a lack of technical skill with pretentious, artistic ********. ;)

+ 1 :p

Unfortunately pretentious artistic ******** is par for the course in the art world these days, but maybe thats more my opinion than anything else. Things like Tracey Emins 'Unmade bed' in my mind doesn't constitute art, its more a social comment on that period of her life. Damien Hirsts animals in formaldehyde, actually god knows what he was thinking with that malarky!

Taking things from my perspective (architecture related) there are the concept / technical design ideas which have to merge to make the final building work. A good example of this is the extension to the V & A building in London by daniel libeskind

va.jpg


nice concept but how exactly will it work?

I can appreciate totally that you dont want to do a 'normal' photograph but you still want to achieve the wow factor. I think its just the execution of your concepts that you need to work on so that you dont need to add this type of narrative to your entries. In a similar vein but not so much SteveOBhave had to explain his was half his face mirrored. A fine use of reflection although too subtle.
 
I have to say, I have always hated describing any of my work in any way or form - I studied Photography and Graphic Design at A-Level and went on to graduate from Film School last year.

People think it's pretentious ******** because, unfortunately, it is. If you're the only person who "gets" your piece of work then it really doesn't have the meaning you think it does. To put it into perspective, if a film director's afraid of peanuts then his film about nuts doesn't constitute a horror. The same works for any medium.

You say there's no love for abstract artwork, but in my opinion the beauty of abstract art is that everybody sees something different and interprets it in their own way. If you have to accompany an essay with it or explain anything at all then people are clearly not going to make their own decision.

I have a feeling my reply is coming across harsher than I mean it to - your post is great, I just don't agree :p.

Take my current entry this month. It's totally rubbish (I'm not happy with it), but I've interpreted the theme differently to "5 second light trails": I've taken a picture based on the 5 second rule, a different interpretation but one that still conforms to the competition theme and guidelines. So you can still be creative and slightly off-topic while still conforming (and this is what I find most challenging).

At the end of the day, a competition is a competition and every one will have its own rules, many of which abstract or vague pieces of work will rarely fit (ie a portrait competition is for portraits, not vague representations of the subconscious via a cracked love heart).
 
The trouble is with the scoring system. There are no marks available for a 'good photograph'.

Tech, theme and impact could all score 25 regardless of if the photo is any good or if the judges like it.

I'd be happy to start a revolution to add a 'goodness' criteria (out of 25) to the scoring system. I feel that would make it a lot more fair. Then the maximum mark would be a nice round 100.
This would need to start in January to be consistent though.
 
Gosh. A lot to say.

Panzerbjorn said:
Cool stuff

I remember looking at this when marking it and being unsure as to what to do with it. It's obviously an abstract, but within the framework of this competition, it wasn't obvious how it should be marked. Photography abstracts occupy a strange place in my mind - it seems you either get something that's wonderfully detailed (your close-up metal is a good example) or something that's rather vague.

Because, in photography, there is usually such an emphasis on there being a 'subject' that's 'sharp', a photo that doesn't contain this may be percieved by many to be lacking. The issue with a 'vague' or 'soft' abstract is that it doesn't let on how much time was put into it. It could have taken 5 hours to set up and thousands of exposures to get right, or it could be an accident created by pressing the shutter whilst waving the camera about. It's different to painting, but it seems that a good photo needs to look like a lot of time and talent was spent on it. I'm not trying to knock your effort, I think experimenting with half gels in front of flashes is great - I'm just trying to put a view to what the judges are up against.



The trouble is with the scoring system. There are no marks available for a 'good photograph'.

Tech, theme and impact could all score 25 regardless of if the photo is any good or if the judges like it.

I'd be happy to start a revolution to add a 'goodness' criteria (out of 25) to the scoring system. I feel that would make it a lot more fair. Then the maximum mark would be a nice round 100.
This would need to start in January to be consistent though.

For me, the 'goodness' of a photo is a combination of the technical ability and the impact. A great photo that's completely off-theme would score ~20/30. We've had this conversation before about whether it's acceptible, and the consensus was that we couldn't find an alternative that everyone agreed upon.
 
The crop removes any ability to draw any kind of conclusion or context, without commentary the photo is meaningless. With commentary it isn't, and that's fine for an art piece. But not for this comp :) Thanks for explaining though!
 
I too have an art background and whilst your post is an interesting read unfortunately thats where it ends for me. I feel you could have married your concept more closely to the theme and achieved something more fitting to the competition. I guess what I am trying to say is look at your target audience. :)
 
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Bend the rules of the game (Be it art, photography or a competition) so far into abstraction, and you cannot be surprised when the vast majority "Don't get it".

I "don't get" most modern art, is that my failure, or the failure of the artist ? Am I too stupid to spend time looking for meaning (Which may not even be there!) or was the artist in error by not making his message clear enough?

That, of course, was rhetorical, and I am not sure can ever be answered.

The art peice you linked, N°14, 1960 , to me was an identifiable approach in that it could be construed by a layman (Myself) to be a sunset over a body of water. The reflections in this case are implicit. Your photograph on the other hand does not achieve this, noteably beacause in the case of N°14, 1960 the "horizon" is level, keying into our subconscious database of 'scenes'. With respect to your image, not being a fan of alcohol I've never seen a horizon as wildly pitched as the one from your composition ;) This means the average brain is not going to make the connection between the represented shapes/colours to anything vaguely real.

The typical comeback to many such observations is that "It's not supposed to mimic a reality" or "But the concept was there!" and, in truth, concept is often as important or sometimes more important than execution. However there is a discussion thread. You could have made your case there, I suspect that the admins don't want attached essays in the submissions thread because it can quickly drown out the photos and become a mudslinging fight between the technophiles and the conceptualists... :)

There is a place for conceptual photography. There is a place for records of pretty things. It wouldn't be my place to say which has more value, though it is easy to establish that "photographs of pretty things" will draw more public attention as the majority of the public don't have the desire to extract conceptual messages from abstraction.

The more abstract the shot, the harder one has to work to extract the concept and the more likely the viewer is to be completely and utterly wrong. People don't like wasting their time on wrong guesses and so one should be prepared, when indulging in such work, for a very muted public response. It's not necessarily right, but it's certainly how it is :)
 
Panzer, that was a really well presented point of view - to be honest in this forum you're a brave man for really embracing the abstract side of photography.

I for one do not 'get' abstract art and have tended to form the opinion that it's the domain of the less talented painters (talking specifically about canvas artists here). Whilst some of it has a passing attraction, I really stuggle to find any real intelligence in the art.

I get really dazzled by detail and cleverness. I am one of those people that you mentioned as being "...the purists who seek perfection through the ‘rules’ of photography...". Altho I like to think that I manage to think outside the box a bit with my ideas.

I see what you mean with the judging being a subjective matter and I really sympathise with the lack of understanding in the abstract that you will find here but like Helium Junkie said, if you remove the context then you find an uphill battle for gaining an 'understanding'.

It's a bit of a shame - I would've thought that the reflection theme would lend itself quite well to the abtraction of photography but without definition or context your photo, to the layman, is reduced to a blur.

Having said that I personally think that N°14 is average as far as art goes - there's abstract and then there is a limited palate of colours on a canvas painted on with little imagination. I have seen far better examples of abstract expressionism notably from a New Zealand artist called Colin McCahon, but even then I would take art from the likes of Rembrandt or Johannes Vermeer any day.

I personally think that there is a point where abstract stops being art and starts being muddled and lost, where the need to 'conform' to the non conformity and stand out as being individually brilliant gets confused and pointless and then end result is something like this:
No__5_1948.jpg
 
I will admit that I read your OP until I read you graduated from an art school and I DID think "that explains it...pretentious, artistic ********."

I was raised up being told that a photo should tell a story, after all, a photo is worth thousand words and if you need an essay to explain then you are obviously doing something wrong.

However, I do like some abstract art, but it's very rare I 'get' it mainly because I have never been taught to or learnt for myself. This is not an issue with the photograph but with myself!

Can I suggest that if you want to do abstract photography you look at starting your own mini competition each week/month. Let people add a small article with it to explain it. This would probably attract quite a few people who, although interested, wouldn't dare do it for the main competition. You would also be help educate people into understanding it more!
 
First of all, thank you to everyone who's taken the time to read through all of that and post their thoughts. There are some excellent points made in this thread and I'm glad the discussion is taking place. :)

I'm not going to reply to everyone individually as it would take an age but I'll try and put together a coherent response to the general views put forward.

First of all, I hope no-one interprets this thread as a 'toys out of the pram' response because of the low score the photo received. I entered the competition very much aware that it would be difficult to mark and to be honest, I did better than I expected. :p

It was also a conscious decision to wait until after the scores were released before explaining what I had done. denyerec mentioned that I could have put all of the above in the discussion thread. However, if I had done that I would have been breaking the "Your photograph should represent the theme without further commentary" rule and it wouldn't have been fair on any of the other entrants.

Having been a member here for quite some time, I'm well aware that there isn't much love for abstracts on these forums (or anywhere else for that matter) but it doesn't stop me posting them. :) Call me brave (or stupid) but I think it's worth putting this kind of thing in front of people, even if they don't 'get it'.

By doing so, accepted norms are challenged and debated. I'm not expecting to (and wouldn't want to) change anyone's point of view, just as I doubt any one is going to change mine. However, I strongly believe that people with conflicting ideas should express and debate those ideas. It would be boring if everyone was the same.

To the few who said that because I wrote the above post I have in some-way failed to convey my thinking/meaning through the photo I will say this:

I could have not written the OP. If I hadn't, you would have been left with your own views/opinion/interpretation of it. The chances are your interpretation would have been WTF:confused: but you would have come to one.

It was mentioned that the beauty of an abstract is that the viewer is able to take away their own meaning from it (as much or as little as they like). I fully agree with this view but I thought it would be interesting to show everyone that despite the fact that the shot looks like an OOF armpit, there was a lot more behind it than first meets the eye.

I realise I've been waffling on a bit so I'll wrap up with a final comment about P&V and the comp itself. Firstly I don't think the scoring needs to change, I also don't think a separate competition would be good for anyone.

I really enjoy the format, the entries and the people involved and I hope it continues to prosper for many years to come. You lot will just have to put up with me being an awkward bugger from time-to-time. :D

Panzer
 
You lot will just have to put up with me being an awkward bugger from time-to-time. :D

Panzer

Think what you need to do is submit a 'normal' photo to win a comp then you can choose 'abstract' as the following months theme to get the rest of us thinking on the same wavelength as you :p
 
Think what you need to do is submit a 'normal' photo to win a comp then you can choose 'abstract' as the following months theme to get the rest of us thinking on the same wavelength as you :p

Yeah and watch while the rest of us fail miserably at the task... There's an idea for the next winner... maybe abstract is not such a bad idea.

Oh and Panzer mate, there is never anything wrong with expressing an opinion in a well thought out and considering manner.
 
Great post Panzer

I think you would agree that most folks start on the forum and enter the comp to learn about photography, seeking to master the camera as a tool for image recording.

What you are talking about is something altogether different. It's taking the tool and using it in a different emotive way.
You need to be confident in both technique and thinking process to do that and as you have demonstrated you are.

Let me be the first to say please keep posting the rusty abstract metal and empty rooms :D
 
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