Remaps/tuning - what's the catch?
- Thread starter Robbo
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More engine wear, more load on parts. Anything that's on its way out, or already stressed, has a higher chance of failing.
You need to make sure the clutch and gearbox are healthy and can take the extra strain etc. Many companies do 'Stage 1' which is different depending where you go, but typically Stage 1 is designed for a (healthy) standard car wit no hardware mods needed. You're not going to double your power output for a couple of hundred quid though. A stage one will be circa 20% improvement on a petrol engine, but obviously it varies depending on engine and tuner.
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It's a long and storied saga.
Essentially manufacturers build decent safety margins in to engines and components in order to maximise lifespan (to a certain extent!) and homogenize regional production. The end result of this is frequently engines tuned to produce significantly less power than they are actually capable of.
There are other reasons such as emissions targets or even refinement.
What mapping does is essentially ignore these to release the power that the engine is capable of. The downsides are often increased fuel consumption and increased engine wear or failures. Not necessarily though. Sometimes there are literally no downsides.
Essentially manufacturers build decent safety margins in to engines and components in order to maximise lifespan (to a certain extent!) and homogenize regional production. The end result of this is frequently engines tuned to produce significantly less power than they are actually capable of.
There are other reasons such as emissions targets or even refinement.
What mapping does is essentially ignore these to release the power that the engine is capable of. The downsides are often increased fuel consumption and increased engine wear or failures. Not necessarily though. Sometimes there are literally no downsides.
I'd suggest that your friend isn't telling the whole truth. Often with increased performance comes increased fuel usage. Tuning engines can often void the warranty and/or make your insurance invalid. As above, if the engine is outputting more power than what the rest of the car was designed for, then other components, transmission, clutch could fail.
True, but not usually as a direct result of a 'modest' map. Stage 1 for example will often improve MPG whilst driving around town etc, but obviously that goes out the window when you start flooring it to enjoy the extra power.
The vast majority of the time there is only one downside to a decent low-power (ie Stage 1) remap: extra wear on the clutch and flywheel.
A basic remap on my Focus ST took it to around 260-265 from 221, the clutch lasted another 30K before it started showing signs of slipping. It would have slipped far sooner if I abused the increase in torque (236lbft to 330-340lbft) by flooring it at lower revs but I always fed the power in gently when above 3k.
A basic remap on my Focus ST took it to around 260-265 from 221, the clutch lasted another 30K before it started showing signs of slipping. It would have slipped far sooner if I abused the increase in torque (236lbft to 330-340lbft) by flooring it at lower revs but I always fed the power in gently when above 3k.
Soldato
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I had a remap on my Impreza and that only had an aftermarket exhaust, the rest of the engine & drive train was stock. Gained about 50hp and was fine for 30k 'till i sold it including trackdays and a trip to Germany towing a trailer, as long as the person doing the map knows their stuff it can be a win with no down sides.
Associate
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if it's a brand new car then he's potentially nuked his warranty for anything engine or drivetrain related. No matter how many people claim that their maps are invisible, they're realistically not if the manufacturer want to scan his ecu at a claim/problem. Also, any map will need to be reported to the insurance, or he's potentially driving with fraudulent insurance.
Maps are more and more popular as some manufacturers use the same engine for different models, but de-tune the lower models for less power (and better ecconomy) - a map can pretty much turn a lower model car into one above. Also modern cars, especially turbo cars, seem to be sold with a map that's suitable for emission standards (say for a lower tax band) or to prolong the life of the turbo - if you're happy to lose a couple mpg and risk needing a new turbo sooner, then mapping a turbo car can instantly produce v noticeable performance gains.
downsides are generally increased costs and risks - higher insurance, higher petrol, higher component wear like brakes and tyres, increased chance of engine problems (especially if it's a bad map, as that can pop an engine) & warranty concerns
upsides are more power and/or arguably better driveability (e.g. increased rev limit, smoother power delivery)
Soldato
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I dont understand how it can improve mpg tho, surely thats what the manufacturers would have wanted to start with?
Caporegime
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On a lot of older cars it was a really good thing. As things were built without the bean counters in many cases. Today in most cases cars are built to a price so when pushing more power something is going to give like the focus clutch mentioned above.
My 22 year old car is running 100BHP over stock and touch wood it has been fine for the past 5 years including several track days.
My 22 year old car is running 100BHP over stock and touch wood it has been fine for the past 5 years including several track days.
Is his S3 a manual or an STronic? The manuals are notorious for shafting clutches after a remap, seems that they are only rated slightly higher than the stock torque.
STronics tend to cope better, but he's still put his warranty in the bin (potentially). Get him to look up TD1 and TB1 flags.
STronics tend to cope better, but he's still put his warranty in the bin (potentially). Get him to look up TD1 and TB1 flags.
Changes to the power curve. Not necessarily having to rev the crap out of it to get it shifting by producing more torque.
They also have to conform to specific tax boundaries (which differ from country to country).
They would sell less cars if the tax was £500 pa rather than £250. Tuning a car in the factory will make it more powerful and potentially better MPG but could result in it falling into a higher tax bracket, which would result in lower sales and fines.
STronic, I think it's Revo stage 1 but I'm not totally sure. He said it was about £600.
That's quite a lot for a stage 1 remap even a custom.
Just slapping on more peak power with a remap and nothing else isn't doing things properly. It increases load on the existing parts while generating more heat. So they often can't sustain the expected power output (because as it starts to get too hot the engine will loose power), it's also not good for the engine in the long run. You should at least upgrade the intake, intercooler etc as well to improve airflow.
Unless there are known to be higher powered versions using the exact same setup. In which case it's just been de-tuned to meet local regulations etc. But most aren't like that.
But the German brands are pretty strict with modifications and warranty, so it's risky. The Japanese ones are a lot more open to it, as are Ford.
Unless there are known to be higher powered versions using the exact same setup. In which case it's just been de-tuned to meet local regulations etc. But most aren't like that.
But the German brands are pretty strict with modifications and warranty, so it's risky. The Japanese ones are a lot more open to it, as are Ford.
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Revo, Shark, APR are all rather pricey these days.
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Quite a few cars also share the same engine and transmission setups but with different power outputs, so that manufactures can offer a bigger range of cars without having different engines and the cost of developing further hardware.
My wifes C-Max for example has the 1.6 ecoboost engine, that comes from the factory with 180bhp in the more sporty cars and remaps to close to 200bhp as standard. It's been detuned to put out 150bhp in her C-Max. I believe BMW have done this in the past too with the 325d which has the same engine etc as the 330d (though i believe injectors are different it will still remap to 330d power and torque output).
As noted previously you shouldn't have too many issues with a stage 1 remap on a health car provided you go to a well known tuner. Torque output is the killer of transmission parts and this is usually the figure that increases the most on a remap.
My wifes C-Max for example has the 1.6 ecoboost engine, that comes from the factory with 180bhp in the more sporty cars and remaps to close to 200bhp as standard. It's been detuned to put out 150bhp in her C-Max. I believe BMW have done this in the past too with the 325d which has the same engine etc as the 330d (though i believe injectors are different it will still remap to 330d power and torque output).
As noted previously you shouldn't have too many issues with a stage 1 remap on a health car provided you go to a well known tuner. Torque output is the killer of transmission parts and this is usually the figure that increases the most on a remap.