Removing Chimney breast

rdb2012

rdb2012

rdb2012

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18 Aug 2012
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I want to remove the chimney breast for my first floor flat(top floor). It is in the middle of the flat and takes a lot of space. I need to have the consent of the people downstairs. However the flat is currently empty and it’s under offer. I contacted the current owners and he didn’t give me an answer. I know the flat downstairs have boxed their fireplace so it is not in use.
What are the likelihood of the new owners letting me remove mine?
i have contacted a structural engineer to come visit and let me know if it possible but obviously this is still pointless if the new owners reject.

Thanks
 
Search the forum, there was an ask from someone in the ground floor flat where the flat above was proposing what you are.
 
Pray the new owners downstairs are not on the wood burner bandwagon!

Personally if I was the downstairs flat I’d say no unless I wanted to remove my chimney breast as well as once you’ve allowed upstairs to remove the chimney net you can never change your mind about installing a fire.

I think you will Need to wait for the sale to complete as if I was the current owner I wouldn’t be jeopardising my sale. Much easier to leave the decision to the new owners!
 
I sympathise with wanting to get more room space, but you might be stuck here. Presumably you have leasehold then, or at best share-of-freehold? Unless downstairs consent, and the freeholder consents, there's not much you can do as they have a right to use the chimney stack. The freeholder can withold consent independently of downstairs. It is not just your chimney to remove. Given the likely push towards air-source heat pumps and increased reliance on natural ventilation in the forseeable future, it would not be wise to agree to losing a chimney where the ground floor can get a duct to roof level, irrespective of whether they want a traditional burning fire (or gas fire for that matter). You might also benefit from keeping it too.

If the chimney stack is on an external wall then any remaining portion needs to be kept ventilated to avoid damp problems inside the flue. The ground floor would therefore need to add an external vent outlet near the top of their remaining section.

If you do get it taken out make sure you get a proper engineer to design the support to the stack. You will need a structural beam or two, do not accept any idiot who mentions the words "gallows brackets" - they are on the list of common defects surveyors look out for when doing purchase and condition surveys.
 
rdb2012 said:
I want to remove the chimney breast for my first floor flat(top floor). It is in the middle of the flat and takes a lot of space. I need to have the consent of the people downstairs. However the flat is currently empty and it’s under offer. I contacted the current owners and he didn’t give me an answer. I know the flat downstairs have boxed their fireplace so it is not in use.
What are the likelihood of the new owners letting me remove mine?
i have contacted a structural engineer to come visit and let me know if it possible but obviously this is still pointless if the new owners reject.

Thanks
Click to expand...

It's possible and not very difficult but it entirely depends on the new owners. There is very little reason why they should say yes, since it is just reducing their future options, unless they plan on removing their part of the stack in which case you are doing them a favour.
 
Okay thanks everyone. I have arranged for structural engineer to come have a look. As there is another wall that I would removed but I don’t think it’s an issue.
 
So the owner downstairs is happy for me to remove the chimney breast and in fact she said she will remove hers if I do it. However, the directors of the management company (who lives in different flats) are rejecting this. Their argument is that it is against what the lease says(no structural changes) however, a lot of the flats have removed walls and changed planning.
I have emailed them back after the rejected saying that you’re not treating everyone equally and if someone does one structural change then everyone should be entitled. I have said I will be doing it or I will take you to court.

Has anyone experienced such thing and am I wasting my time and money.
 
Well I'm not a lawyer, but if you're leasehold you do not own the structure. Your lease ends at the paint IIRC. If so, then it would seem they are within their rights to refuse permission to alter the structure. Should you push it, it will presumably go legal at some point and where the lawyers will earn their crust is in the debate of "is it reasonable", and "would it prejudice the value of the asset?", etc etc. They could feasibly argue that the (rumoured) forthcoming changes to ventilation standards might mean the chimney will be beneficial, or foreseeably beneficial, and make their case based on that. You can threaten to sue them but I imagine they will afford better lawyers than you. It will come down to a legal dance, and one of you will eventually win. Even if you're successful I imagine you could spend a lot doing so. The question is, will it be worth it to you?

Is there a defined process in the leasehold terms for applying to make structural alterations? If there is a procedure to follow then the lease clearly has an expectation that leaseholders would be able to apply to make alterations subject to that procedure. It probably has a wording about being suitable, not detrimental, to the satisfaction of the freeholder and subject to independent/3rd party design review etc etc, but it would strengthen your case (provided you then follow that procedure).

If, on the other hand, the lease clearly states "no structural changes at all whatsover in any circumstances, will ever be permitted, even if you offer to pay us a gazillion dollars and solve world debt" then things will be weighing against you.
 
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As a non legal person, I would guess if the lease if right, then you're taking the risk unless you get dispensation, or could face penalties for going ahead with it, should the freeholders choose to pursue yiu for breach of lease.

Whether they have done the same to other people is irrelavant in my humble opinion.

You're better off engaging with them to know why they are against it and try to sell the benefits to them.
 
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