Request for Phenom mATX advice

finchywinchy

finchywinchy

finchywinchy

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Joined
4 Nov 2013
Posts
10
Hello folks,

The chap on Overclocker's email duty suggested youse guys were the folks to ask about this.

I've been waiting on the Phenom case to arrive because I've wanted to build a visciously powerful SFF PC for a while. Anyway, as you might've noticed, Overclockers are doing a build of it that would make my life a lot simpler. Here it is...

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-407-OE

Now, one of the options is to SLI/Crossfire it up. My question is, how silly can I get with dual graphics cards. I mean, they offer up to two 780s or two 290Xs. That's just obscene! But very tempting.

My questions are thus...

1) How powerful could I go with the graphics if I wanted two cards in this case, (I do)

2) Would the heat and noise it kicked out basically necessitate keeping it in a cupboard, so defeating the purpose of having a case that, I personally, think looks great, (I don't often wear headphones to drown out noise)

3) This is more a follow on question. I understand the 290, (not the 290X), will step down its GPU if it gets too hot to quite a drastic degree. Has anyone a) experienced this and b) fixed it and c) got advice on whether such cooling would be possible with two of the things in this case.

I'd appreciate all comments and suggestions. I'm reasonably technically adept, and pretty un-lazy, but the more I look into this, the more unsure I get. I haven't built a PC in a long time, and heat wasn't an issue then. Mind you, it wouldn't be, with a case big enough to hang wet towels up in. So, yes, I'd appreciate your advice. Especially if it suggests I'm not being silly.
 
Welcome mate,

Do the OCUK guys think we know more than they do? :) Or are they just lazy.. Cough cough..

Anyway...

finchywinchy said:
1) How powerful could I go with the graphics if I wanted two cards in this case, (I do)
Click to expand...

Firstly, id contact OCUK again and ask them what Power supply they use in that build, as the problem i have noticed with the prodigyM/phenom M is the PSU size affect the length of GPU you can install.. It seems like OCUK have found the best PSU for the job...

THis should be hard for them to answer.. All that ids given on the Spec list is 850W 80+ rated.. Which doesn't narrow it down much..

Then heat and noise become an issue (which i will answer in question 2) :)

finchywinchy said:
2) Would the heat and noise it kicked out basically necessitate keeping it in a cupboard, so defeating the purpose of having a case that, I personally, think looks great, (I don't often wear headphones to drown out noise)
Click to expand...

Heat and noise are a big issue with the 290 and 290X currently as the stock coolers are very poor.

I'd suggest getting GTX 770's/780's instead, just to cut down on noise and heat.

Obviously even then noise will be a factor though if you get quiet cards such as the windforce 3x (you'll need to check this fits, and other options are avalible) it shouldn't ruin your expereince.

Putting a PC in a cupboard/waredrobe is the worse thing you can do. Think about it logically. If you components are getting hot you to intake some cool air and exhaust the hot air.. If the PC was in a cupboard they be little cool air and that would (over time) be warmed up to by the air you're exhausting. The 'hot box' effect, if you will..

finchywinchy said:
3) This is more a follow on question. I understand the 290, (not the 290X), will step down its GPU if it gets too hot to quite a drastic degree. Has anyone a) experienced this and b) fixed it and c) got advice on whether such cooling would be possible with two of the things in this case.
Click to expand...

Its a heat issue (the technical name is throttling) which the 290X suffers from too. They only way around it at the moment is to watercool it but it may/will be hard in a case that small (and that lacking in fans).

I can help you spec a build if you wish, i just need to know a few things:

  • Do you want 2 cards to start with (or 1 now and add one later)
  • Budget

:)
 
Doomedspeed! Hello mate!

Thanks for getting back to me - I hoped you would, your responses to other people's similar requests have informed a lot of my decision making.

I should've thought about the cupboard-heat dissipation thing, but it definately highlights the need for the box to run quiet(-ish), if I need it in the open. I've read up on the windforce series, and also the EVGA equivalent. I saw a comparison of temps & dB, and they seem quite comparable.

Anyway, thanks for your offer of a build spec. I'll give you the low-down.

I'm looking to get a future-proof SFF general-purpose/gaming PC, (plenty of RAM, I do a bit of everything), OS, a 2560x1440 monitor, (maybe 2 if they're at the right price-point), and I don't mind the total bill coming to a bit over £2000, say £2300 max. It has to be as much a business machine as it is a gaming machine.

I'd like it to be ready for 4k gaming by the time 4k monitors drop below, say, £1000. Which I don't think will be a for a while, but that stresses the need for the machine to be future proof. I read somewhere that dual 780s are just about the minimum requirement for 4k, (source: Tomshardware, I think).

I intended to go down the Sli route years ago, buying one card with the system, intending to add another later, but then couldn't find a matching card. I understand that's not so much of a problem, now, but I'd still prefer to get matching cards.

So, at the very least, I'd want the machine capable of Sli, if not initially. I'm not looking to spread my gaming over more than one monitor, the second monitor would be for work, and I *think* sli'd 780's to drive even a 2560x1440 resolution is overkill, (although enlighten me if I'm wrong). So the Sli is all for the hope of future 4k, in my mind, and the desire to have a machine that is to all intents and purposes finished. If you think the bang-per-buck of this proposed machine is overwhelmingly skewed towards more bucks, let me know!

But let's say I went down the 780 route, with either the Gigabyte Ghz or EVGA ACX edition - might as well get the fast ones, since the extra pennies seem to translate into noticable performance. Since they're both cherry-picked, and with the advent of the 780Ti, are the chances I'll be able to get another a couple of years down the line pretty slim? And how low are the prices likely to drop on those cards? If I'm unlikely to save much in the long run, I'd rather pimp the machine in one purchase, where at least I'd be getting full use out of them.

Thanks again for your advice. I should mention another thing to include in your considerations - modifying the case would be beyond me; I'd ruin it. I've seen me do DIY, and the results, shall we say, do not add value to the house...
 
Finally, someone who's as good at DIY as i am. :) I still have two holes in my wall from putting my shelf in the wrong place and not bothering to re-paint.. I put that shelf up about 15 months ago. :)

But i digress.

So were looking at a 780/780TI SLI build in a SSF case? Suunds my kind of thing. :)

I think you should try to buy both the cards at the same time.. The prices will fall a bit over time but like you say the avalbility of particular models will vary.

Are you set on the phenom as a case? (the reason i ask will become clearer in a minute, well my next point).

What are your thoughts on cooling? Is custom watercooling beyond you? (I understand that it may be a hassle to some people) This is not a must but it will keep noise levels (and heat levels) much lower, though the loop will cost about £300-£400. Or would you much rather go with a H100 (type) cooler?

The reason i ask about cooling (and your case choice) is the phenom is quite limited in its cooling ability. For example, you won't be able to SLI and have a H100(i).. As the rad will go in the top of the case, which will be blocked by the second GPU.

Another issue with the phenom (with 2 GPU's) is airflow. As the only fans are at the back (low) and the bottom (even lower) the air flow to the cards is very little. It relies on pulling air in front the top of the case to cool them, which isn't ideal atall..

I have a few suggestion of case you can look at but i can't suggest one until we agree (you've decided) on a cooling solution which is best for you..

My suggestions would be: Corsair 350D/ Fractal Arc mini R2, just so you can go and take a look at them. :)

Currently, i think 4k is a bit of a waste for gaming, id much rather have a 1440p or 120hz display (maybe 3 24" screens).. Though 4k may improve of the next few years.
 
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Take a look at this: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-654-LL


The V358 is an interesting little (not so little) case..

It shoudl handle SLI pretty well, as the second card will be up against an open grill. :)

It has plenty of cooling from the two fans at the front and room for a CLC (H100i).

The build quality of Lian Li's are exceptional, my V351 was lovely. :)
 
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Oooo, that V358 looks nice. Okay, I've got to think again. I'd just about decided that I was pushing it with the specs I was after, now I'm turned around again. I'll take a deeper look, but I've got to actuall do some work today, so It'll be sporadic
 
Hi,

I'm in exactly the same boat torn between a Phenom and the V358. Waiting til after xmas to purchase tho

Please let us know how you get on and what you get in the end.
 
Change of tack

Ooookay. Sorry I've left this conversation so long, I had a lot to look into.

After much research and soul searching, I've come to the conclusion that I can't have small, powerful and quiet. And cool. So I've modified my aims a bit. I'm going for small and powerful. I've got my eye on the Cubetek Mini-ICE

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-065-CT

and I intend to fill it with a GTX690. Could I get your advice on cooling for the motherboard, cpu, memory, etc? I don't think the case comes with fans....
 
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