Response times ms

Guest2 · 3 Jan 2023 at 11:37

Is there any standardisation for stated response times of monitors in ms?

E.g. One im looking at has 20ms response time. But this might be gray to gray, black to black or something else

I think a black-white-black (BtB) response time of 25ms is close to a gray-to-gray (GtG) response time of 5ms.

All this means 16 or 20ms might be terrible or really good.

Baddass · 3 Jan 2023 at 12:57

Not really. And if a screen is being quoted with an ISO black to white response time, I wouldn’t make any assumptions about it having overdrive and therefore a lowers g2g. In fact it probably doesn’t if it’s quoting a large figure like that!

What screen is it you’re looking at? And for what uses?

MrRockliffe · 3 Jan 2023 at 13:17

I was about to tag Baddass, but I can see he's already responded

AFAIK, no

Different manufacturers will quote:

Grey to grey or black to white, and then with different overdrive settings.

As above, what's the purpose of the display?

If it's gaming, lower response times are king, as the motion is clearer. OLED > TN > IPS > VA, typically.

If it's general/office use, then something low enough will be fine - in the region of 5ms grey to grey. I still prefer low response times for any situation, because it makes using the monitor more enjoyable due to the clearer motion (i.e. text not getting blurry when scrolling).

Guest2 · 3 Jan 2023 at 23:34

Baddass said:
Not really. And if a screen is being quoted with an ISO black to white response time, I wouldn’t make any assumptions about it having overdrive and therefore a lowers g2g. In fact it probably doesn’t if it’s quoting a large figure like that!

What screen is it you’re looking at? And for what uses?

Im looking for a small 4:3 screen for PCem Windows 9X emulation - programs and games.

The screen can be anything, 9" total in hieght. The better ones seem to be Lilliput, Iiyama and Eizo, the Iiyama is probably a little too big.

Lilliput FA1000-NP/C/T - 9.7" HDMI Touchscreen monitor

The FA1000-NP/C/T features a 5 wire resistive touchscreen and HDMI, DVI, VGA and composite connectivity

lilliputdirect.com

DuraVision FDSV1201 | EIZO

12.1 inch durable, high-brightness industrial monitor with 800 × 600 resolution panel for industrial workstation terminals.

www.eizoglobal.com

ProLite TF1215MC-B1

12.1’’ PCAP 10pt touchscreen solution for pick-up points

iiyama.com

Failing these there are loads of cheap Chinese screens such as Eyoyo and many other screens that look very similar (and very cheap quality wise) Id rather spend a bit more on something better. The lilliput for £167 seems the best so far

Rroff · 3 Jan 2023 at 23:46

Unfortunately a lot of it doesn't mean much anyhow - a screen with slightly higher average times but with more consistent response without some transitions being very slow, etc. can be a vastly better experience than something which has low average times but very poor worst case response, etc. etc.

Guest2 · 4 Jan 2023 at 08:59

Rroff said:
Unfortunately a lot of it doesn't mean much anyhow - a screen with slightly higher average times but with more consistent response without some transitions being very slow, etc. can be a vastly better experience than something which has low average times but very poor worst case response, etc. etc.

Balls. So really there is no way of knowing how good (or bad) a screen will be.

I've had confirmation that the LILLIPUT FA1000-NP/C/T is 20ms black-to-black. Is that the same as black-white-black? 20ms BtB should equate to a low gray-to-gray, but guess if worst case response is bad then it means nothing

Baddass · 4 Jan 2023 at 13:43

I dont know much about those nice small sized screens im afraid, but I would be careful about making any assumptions about G2G response times based on a BTB response time spec. In fact i would expect it to be the opposite of what you've said, for the simple reason that manufacturers will always quote the best case response time spec. ISO and BTB response time specs were really around from the days before overdrive was used on monitors, and in those situations they were the fastest response time of the panel. you'd see 25ms, 20ms and 16ms commonly. G2G transitions were always much slower.

When overdrive was later introduced, they (in very simple terms) found that by applying a higher voltage to the G2G transitions, they could speed those up. the BTB response time remained basically the same, as that was already using the max voltage before, and G2G reduced. Then they started to shift to quoting G2G figures instead as those were now better

so it would be a warning flag to me if i saw a screen still quoted with the old BTB type response time. it probably means overdrive isn't being used, and G2G response times are poor.

the only way to really know would be to see these screens in person and see if they're ok for your needs, or see if you can find any measurements of response times from third parties to give you an idea.

EsaT · 4 Jan 2023 at 15:37

Guest2 said:
Balls. So really there is no way of knowing how good (or bad) a screen will be.

Correct, best to assume everyone lies and picks the best for marketing number, regardless if it has any meaning, or is even measured at usable settings.

Baddass said:
When overdrive was later introduced, they (in very simple terms) found that by applying a higher voltage to the G2G transitions, they could speed those up. the BTB response time remained basically the same, as that was already using the max voltage before, and G2G reduced. Then they started to shift to quoting G2G figures instead as those were now better

If needing explanation document of overdrive to link, Texas Instruments has now document what National Semiconductor had:

https://www.ti.com/lit/an/snla185/snla185.pdf

rustyk21 · 4 Jan 2023 at 22:25

Guest2 said:
Balls. So really there is no way of knowing how good (or bad) a screen will be.

I've had confirmation that the LILLIPUT FA1000-NP/C/T is 20ms black-to-black. Is that the same as black-white-black? 20ms BtB should equate to a low gray-to-gray, but guess if worst case response is bad then it means nothing

Best thing to do it read the tech explanations on blur busters and read the explanations of response times on monitor reviews on Rtings. You can't rely on any of the manufacturer figures as they never tell the whole true story.
Youve got MPRT, overshoot errors with overdrive, different reponse times depending on starting pixel brightness etc, even different response times across the screen.