Riddle me this-Heating Oil

Orionaut · 3 Jun 2020 at 17:10

Not had oil heating before. But noticed on my bill this caveat...

THIS FUEL IS NOT TO BE USED AS ROAD FUEL OR AS FUEL FOR ANY OTHER ENGINE,
MOTOR OR MACHINERY.

The road fuel thing I can understand (Fuel duty and all that)

The "Any other engine" thing however?

Really??

Why/Why not??

Are there some sort of regulation out there that states that it is unlawful for me to use heating oil to power a CHP heating system? Really? And Why FFS?

ahar · 3 Jun 2020 at 17:15

It's a VAT thing I think. Different rates depending on the usage.

Greebo · 3 Jun 2020 at 17:30

ahar said:
It's a VAT thing I think. Different rates depending on the usage.

This. The VAT is more on "red diesel" than it is on heating oil.

Road going vehs its 57.95p duty plus 20% VAT

Red diesel (agricultural) is 10.70p duty plus 20% VAT

Heating oil is 10.70p duty plus 5% VAT.

You cannot use heating oil in a generator, it must be red diesel.

Minusorange · 3 Jun 2020 at 18:27

Greebo said:
You cannot use heating oil in a generator, it must be red diesel.

Legally or Scientifically ?

Jez · 3 Jun 2020 at 18:33

He confuses cannot with should not

(Legally being the answer, of course kerosene generators exist)

Orionaut · 3 Jun 2020 at 18:49

ahar said:
It's a VAT thing I think. Different rates depending on the usage.

VAT is 5% Just like any other domestic energy. Why should it be an issue if I use it for heating in a boiler, using in a generator as combined CHP (Or just for electricity which would actually be cheaper just now), or even burning it in an open pit to roast a Pig (Subject to local regulations regarding smoke etc

).

It is mine being used on my own land! Its not like I am using it in my Landcruiser to go shopping or whatever.

I am sort of outraged at this restriction and cannot see any logical/reasonable justification for it!

:mad:

DXP55 · 3 Jun 2020 at 19:34

The justification is the Gov wants your money. You cannot live for free.

I remember when there wasn't VAT on heating oil.

Orionaut · 3 Jun 2020 at 19:50

DXP55 said:
The justification is the Gov wants your money. You cannot live for free.

I remember when there wasn't VAT on heating oil.

Yeah but,

This restriction is ludicrous.

Its like going to Wickes and buying a pot of paint and being told I can use it to paint my shed but not my house! :rolleyes:

Greebo · 4 Jun 2020 at 08:31

Minusorange said:
Legally or Scientifically ?

legally.

Spook187 · 4 Jun 2020 at 11:48

Orionaut said:
VAT is 5% Just like any other domestic energy. Why should it be an issue if I use it for heating in a boiler, using in a generator as combined CHP (Or just for electricity which would actually be cheaper just now), or even burning it in an open pit to roast a Pig (Subject to local regulations regarding smoke etc ).

It is mine being used on my own land! Its not like I am using it in my Landcruiser to go shopping or whatever.

I am sort of outraged at this restriction and cannot see any logical/reasonable justification for it!

Just use it for whatever purpose you want, who is going to know.

TheVoice · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:13

Why are you getting outraged over what appears to be an entirely hypothetical issue, unless you actually have a CHP system you need fuel for?

Orionaut · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:16

TheVoice said:
Why are you getting outraged over what appears to be an entirely hypothetical issue, unless you actually have a CHP system you need fuel for?

Not my machine, but I have one very like it.

Monkeynut · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:18

Those old Lister engines run on anything - throw some 20 year old rotten diesel in there and it will probably run.

Puzzled · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:26

Fuel duty thing, I know on canal boats you have to declare what spilt you want for heating / transportation and pay different rates on each even though its the same fuel coming out the same pipe.

MikeTheNative · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:29

Orionaut said:
Yeah but,

This restriction is ludicrous.

Its like going to Wickes and buying a pot of paint and being told I can use it to paint my shed but not my house!

Wait till you see canal boats have to pay two different tax rates on the same purchase of fuel. As there is different rates for using the same fuel to move and then to heat the boat.

Mcnumpty2323 · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:45

MikeTheNative said:
Wait till you see canal boats have to pay two different tax rates on the same purchase of fuel. As there is different rates for using the same fuel to move and then to heat the boat.

That's just weird
How is it even enforceable?
Or is there a set amount /% when you buy fuel?
Ie if you bought 100 litres say for example 40 litres is allocated as fuel to heat and 60 as fuel to move the boat?

TheVoice · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:49

Orionaut said:
Not my machine, but I have one very like it.

In that case, carry on.

Puzzled · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:51

Mcnumpty2323 said:
That's just weird
How is it even enforceable?
Or is there a set amount /% when you buy fuel?
Ie if you bought 100 litres say for example 40 litres is allocated as fuel to heat and 60 as fuel to move the boat?

Most places will only do a 60/40 split, others will let you declare your own split.

Mcnumpty2323 · 4 Jun 2020 at 12:59

Puzzled said:
Most places will only do a 60/40 split, others will let you declare your own split.

So there's basically the possibility of bunging some one a few quid and declaring 80/20 lol

Puzzled · 4 Jun 2020 at 13:04

Mcnumpty2323 said:
So there's basically the possibility of bunging some one a few quid and declaring 80/20 lol

You wouldn't need to bung them a few quid, over winter for example lots of boats will only use fuel for heating so as long as you can justify it to the tax man if they come knocking then its ok. But what from I've seen most places just tend to do 60/40 to save hassle.