Rough cost of internal reworking to make a good size kitchen!

[dl8860]

Searching for a house move currently and one of our 'hard' requirements is an eat in kitchen, preferably a large one.

We've found a house we really like that ticks basically every box but this, so exploring the idea of making it happen. We've got two second viewings at our house tomorrow so having to get ready to pull the trigger very soon on an offer.

Current floor plan is this



And my idea for internal reworking to achieve a good size kitchen is this



The wall between the kitchen and utility room is load bearing, so that will need replaced with an RSJ.

We would also be basically gutting the kitchen, and have all the costs associated with putting up those new walls (yellow green and purple) and fitting out a utility, new loo and study. As it is, the garage is unfinished, just breeze block on the inside. And I know the loo should be on an external wall, so will alter that.

I'm thinking following:

Demolish load bearing wall and install RSJ
2.5k

Fit out new kitchen - new floors, units, only new appliance is dishwasher
12k

Plumbing and fit out for new loo
1.5k

Plumbing and fit out utility room
3k

Study
2k

Do something with garage door (brick up, window, or something)
1k

Would total 22k, so budget 25k.

Does that seem in the right ballpark or am I way off? Any major things I'm missing? Or any other ideas how to get a nice big kitchen into that space? The wall between the kitchen and dining room is actually load bearing, and we feel like if you knock into that and wall up between existing dining room and hallway, the kitchen diner would be too much of an L shape.

If I bother builder with this asking for an estimate, will he tell me to come back once I've exchanged, or at least got an exchange date?

AFAIK builder's are very busy still, and I can see them not wanting to waste time on a quote for a house that someone doesn't even own yet.

Thanks.

 

[OpenToSuggestions]

I personally would not want a house that size without a garage, but then that is my criteria and not everyone else's view.
Do you need a utility room if the kitchen will be huge? This would keep a single garage.
Do you have lots of kids? I am assuming this is a 4 or 5 bed house?
Could the snug be turned into an office? I don't know your living arrangements, but a living room, conservatory and a snug are a lot of rooms that may not get used.

Lots of open ended questions there I realise! However my view is that a dining room and a dining kitchen seem a bit pointless really! This makes the dining room get used on Easter Sunday and Xmas day!

25k is some serious money, but in Surrey I expect the prices are so high that this is small in relation to the house value.

 

[Buffman]

I'd hazard nearer to 40k budget just to afford a good fit out. Could you not extend the back of the kitchen and wrap it round instead?

 

[dl8860]

Thanks for replies chaps.

I personally would not want a house that size without a garage, but then that is my criteria and not everyone else's view.
Do you need a utility room if the kitchen will be huge? This would keep a single garage.
Do you have lots of kids? I am assuming this is a 4 or 5 bed house?
Could the snug be turned into an office? I don't know your living arrangements, but a living room, conservatory and a snug are a lot of rooms that may not get used.

Lots of open ended questions there I realise! However my view is that a dining room and a dining kitchen seem a bit pointless really! This makes the dining room get used on Easter Sunday and Xmas day!

25k is some serious money, but in Surrey I expect the prices are so high that this is small in relation to the house value.

We are totally unfussed about the garage, the current occupiers have it solely as storage, there's sufficient driveway space for 4 or 5 cars and neither of us are that precious about cars anyway. There's space to add a storage shed in the garden if we find the storage space loss is an issue.

The need for the utility room is marginal I agree, it's more of a wife stipulation to get the washing machine, dryer and chest freezer out of the kitchen, and also have it as a bit of a boot room which would be nice.

We have 2 and will have one more kid, it's a 5 bed.

The plan is for the snug to be the kids playroom, which we are really keen on having separate to the living room as in our current house (2 bed semi) it feels like we're constantly surrounded by toys!

The dining room is the only one that might be a bit surplus, but I think it's still sort of useful, but your point is very fair. If we could knock kitchen into dining room for a workable solution - which in this case would be cheaper and easier - I would be up for that. But my point above about the shape stands I think.

This house is west midlands, not Surrey, but it's not a massive amount in relation to the total house value yeah. And I think the kitchen size as it is is hindering the value of the property, and putting in a big 'un will add a good bit of value. Maybe not recoup the full cost of the renovation, but still.

I'd hazard nearer to 40k budget just to afford a good fit out. Could you not extend the back of the kitchen and wrap it round instead?

Mmm this is the thing, 40k would be a deal breaker as we haven't got that much room in the budget. Extending out the back we thought would be surely more expensive with addition of new external walls, and it also would mean redoing the patio that is currently outside the kitchen/utility/living room, and would eat into the garden. So extension is a no for those reasons I think.

The idea is for this to be a forever home, so would rather do it properly in stages than cheap out. And we can definitely live without the utility, downstairs loo and study for a year or two if needs be. Well, I can, wife may complain a bit more.

 

[The Angry Welshman]

Why not just open up the wall to the dining room and leave the breakfast/utility and downstairs loo as it is.......save hell of a lot of money.

then you can split the garage for office and storage without having all the plumbing works redoing

 

[Ripper]

Why not just open up the wall to the dining room and leave the breakfast/utility and downstairs loo as it is.......save hell of a lot of money.

then you can split the garage for office and storage without having all the plumbing works redoing

This, unless your deadset on wide open plan kitchen with bifolds to the rear or something similar.

You could then portion off the back end of the garage for a bigger study and have a door from the current dining room to access it (maybe even block up the door from the utility if you wished to). Then the front portion of the garage could continue to be used for storage (you'll miss it when it's gone!).

 

[Puzzled]

Merging the kitchen with the existing dining room would make sense as long as you are happy with walking in to the kitchen area from the front door. Dining rooms don't really get used when you have seating in the kitchen anyway so will just become a clutter zone.

Thought of something similar here but like you its a load bearing wall so I figured it would be expensive.

 

[pp111]

My only observation here is when you are moving the loo, ( and to a lesser extent the utility room ) where is the waste pipe? Placing the loo in the middle of it all is perhaps not the best location. I would wonder about placing the loo on the outside wall and just making the rest of the garage a utility room. Not sure there is enough room for a study. Windows would be better.

 

[JC]

I would suggest this instead

• Minimal plumbing changes vs your proposal
• 1 internal wall removal, with 1x expected RSJ
• Remove existing kitchen cupboard/pantry
• Install new kitchen layout with central island
• New Dining/Living space should fit a dining table + sofa
• 1 new internal wall to turn existing Dining into more living/study space
• Remove doors between hallway and kitchen OR install double doors there if you need for fire regs
• Optional 1 external wall replacement to allow for the popular trend Bi-fold (might need 2nd RSJ here)

 

[Buffman]

Above seems a much better layout! Would probably cost less too as less plumbing

I can't see many people wanting a 5 bed house to have removed the double garage (appreciate you may not be too bothered about resale).

 

[SoliD]

Above seems a much better layout! Would probably cost less too as less plumbing

I can't see many people wanting a 5 bed house to have removed the double garage (appreciate you may not be too bothered about resale).

This, removal of garages in houses of this size seem so common, hardly anyone uses the garage for cars these days buts it's use a properly secure storage area is the real benefit.

 

[Buffman]

This, removal of garages in houses of this size seem so common, hardly anyone uses the garage for cars these days buts it's use a properly secure storage area is the real benefit.

To be fair house im buying (4 bed detached) doesn't have a garage but i realise it does put some people off. Personally I'm not too bothered.

 

[SoliD]

If it didn't have a garage that's slightly different but amount of houses you see that had a garage that is converted to a generally not very well lit office or another reception room is pretty high. Especially in large houses where the space is not exactly at a premium.

 

[Gav_r26]

I would suggest this instead

• Minimal plumbing changes vs your proposal
• 1 internal wall removal, with 1x expected RSJ
• Remove existing kitchen cupboard/pantry
• Install new kitchen layout with central island
• New Dining/Living space should fit a dining table + sofa
• 1 new internal wall to turn existing Dining into more living/study space
• Remove doors between hallway and kitchen OR install double doors there if you need for fire regs
• Optional 1 external wall replacement to allow for the popular trend Bi-fold (might need 2nd RSJ here)

What JC said^

Moving the WC and utility will likely be a nightmare for plumbing. Only thing I Would say if you wanted the Snug 2 / study as a separate play room as you've indicated is convert the garage then to a study / half study & half store.

Also with this you'll get a lovey view into the garden from the front door as you walk in. (assuming the garden is out the back where the bifolds are!)

 

[dl8860]

Appreciate the thoughts and input, thanks all.

Why not just open up the wall to the dining room and leave the breakfast/utility and downstairs loo as it is.......save hell of a lot of money.

then you can split the garage for office and storage without having all the plumbing works redoing

Merging the kitchen with the existing dining room would make sense as long as you are happy with walking in to the kitchen area from the front door. Dining rooms don't really get used when you have seating in the kitchen anyway so will just become a clutter zone.

Thought of something similar here but like you its a load bearing wall so I figured it would be expensive.

I did say above that this was our first thought but I feel like the room would be too 'L' shaped, you'd have a sort of bottleneck at the corner

My only observation here is when you are moving the loo, ( and to a lesser extent the utility room ) where is the waste pipe? Placing the loo in the middle of it all is perhaps not the best location. I would wonder about placing the loo on the outside wall and just making the rest of the garage a utility room. Not sure there is enough room for a study. Windows would be better.

OP stated I know the loo should be external wall, just didn't update the sketch.

I would suggest this instead

• Minimal plumbing changes vs your proposal
• 1 internal wall removal, with 1x expected RSJ
• Remove existing kitchen cupboard/pantry
• Install new kitchen layout with central island
• New Dining/Living space should fit a dining table + sofa
• 1 new internal wall to turn existing Dining into more living/study space
• Remove doors between hallway and kitchen OR install double doors there if you need for fire regs
• Optional 1 external wall replacement to allow for the popular trend Bi-fold (might need 2nd RSJ here)

Thanks very much for drawing this up! It's a really good proposal, and you're right it would save a fair bit of plumbing and effort.

It does looks like there's not very much space for kitchen units, I think we'd not do the bifolds and just have a big long window across the back with more kitchen units, and reorient the island to suit. There is also an aga in situ on the top wall (shown in original floor plan) which would be good to leave where it is if possible.

I'm also not mad on a combined kitchen and living room, the room is almost too big! And don't like the idea of a TV and sofa area in the same room as the kitchen really.

The sitting room as it is is one of the great features of the house so it seems like a big loss to cut into it, the snug 2 is a decent size to make up for it though.

So although on paper it makes a lot more sense than my plan, it doesn't suit our tastes as much. Though, if it costs significantly less, then that is a big point in it's favour. So it is really good food for thought, thank you.

On the topic of garages, our plan if we converted the garage would be to build a car port as there is space in the garden, and perhaps even put a study/studio above it too if money permits in the next few years. So the preservation of the garage is really not an issue for us.

Any other thoughts really gladly welcomed.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

What we can't see is what the rooms actually look like. It's easy to knock around a floor plan but the reality may be a little different I guess.

I have no ideas to contribute sadly, other than to say if you can fit 4 cars in the driveway then the garage seems utterly pointless.

 

[JC]

Do you have space and practicality to extend out the back single story.
It's not going to happen for your indicated budget, but if you are keen to keep the living room then that might be an option to gain space.

Keeping the garage or not seems to evoke lots of debate. Whilst you don't need to tell us, think about the overall house value and potential re-sale vs everything else around. Is someone buying a comparable 5 bed house to this going to want to store a sports car? motorbikes? a family sized collection of bicycles? canoes and other sports gear?

 

[Puzzled]

I wouldn't worry about the garage too much, you cant really fit a car in a single garage now so it only tends to used for storage.

Its nice to have but if you don't need it and its in the way of your desired layout then go with your original plan. As you say you could always build some storage in the garden.

 

[fish]

slight modification to JC's plan to get the large living room back. I hope the image works. If you intend to convert the garage later it may be better to get it done now with the other work. You may need some short piers to accommodate the RSJ in the living room. I still think you are looking at closer to 40k than 20. Depending on if you have friends/relatives in the trade who can get discount on things.