Ryzen 5 1400 -> i5 8400/9400F?

GoogalyMoogaly · 3 Apr 2019 at 22:18

Hi,

I've currently got a Ryzen 5 1400 in a SFF gaming rig (Silverstone ML08-H case).
I'm struggling to find a decent cooler for this CPU that will fit in the case. The Wraith Stealth cooler that comes with the CPU does fit, but does a ****-poor job. The Wraith Spire won't fit. Last time I looked AM4 made finding a good low profile cooler challenging.

So I'm tempted to switch to an i5 8400. A little easier to find coolers, but I'm not sure if they're any good at cooling. Does anyone know how tall the stock cooler is?

For a gaming rig is it worth switching from a 1400 to a 8400 (given that the cooler option probably won't allow for any real overclocking)?

What about the 9400F, is that a better shout than the 8400? It's clocked 100MHz faster, but lacks iGPU. I'm unlikely to use the iGPU, but if it's there...

So which is best for gaming? Which runs coolest? Any decent, inexpensive low profile coolers I can use on either?

Thanks.

humbug · 4 Apr 2019 at 00:03

GoogalyMoogaly said:
Hi,

I've currently got a Ryzen 5 1400 in a SFF gaming rig (Silverstone ML08-H case).
I'm struggling to find a decent cooler for this CPU that will fit in the case. The Wraith Stealth cooler that comes with the CPU does fit, but does a ****-poor job. The Wraith Spire won't fit. Last time I looked AM4 made finding a good low profile cooler challenging.

So I'm tempted to switch to an i5 8400. A little easier to find coolers, but I'm not sure if they're any good at cooling. Does anyone know how tall the stock cooler is?

For a gaming rig is it worth switching from a 1400 to a 8400 (given that the cooler option probably won't allow for any real overclocking)?

What about the 9400F, is that a better shout than the 8400? It's clocked 100MHz faster, but lacks iGPU. I'm unlikely to use the iGPU, but if it's there...

So which is best for gaming? Which runs coolest? Any decent, inexpensive low profile coolers I can use on either?

Thanks.

Googling i found a Ryzen specific low profile cooler.

Google. Noctua NH-L9a AM4, 37mm Premium Low-profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4

MaXxBoulton · 4 Apr 2019 at 07:02

Why not just pick up a 1700x cooler from ocuk for a 10er

Double07 · 4 Apr 2019 at 07:05

humbug said:
Googling i found a Ryzen specific low profile cooler.

Google. Noctua NH-L9a AM4, 37mm Premium Low-profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4

Aww that is pretty funky actually!

GoogalyMoogaly · 4 Apr 2019 at 19:34

humbug said:
Googling i found a Ryzen specific low profile cooler.

Google. Noctua NH-L9a AM4, 37mm Premium Low-profile CPU Cooler for AMD AM4

I wish I lived in your world where £38 was inexpensive!
I did consider this one at the time, but I believe it needed an adaptor that you had to send off for. I got a Cryorig C7 which was supposed to be about as good, but the adaptor seemed to come with the wrong bits (or I was too stupid to figure it out).
That said, now it comes with the adaptor it might be worth considering as although it's not cheaper, it's probably cheaper than changing everything.
Wondering if the "NH-L9X65 SE-AM4 LOW PROFILE CPU COOLER" would fit in the case. Gonna have to look it up (I doubt it, but a whisker).

MaXxBoulton said:
Why not just pick up a 1700x cooler from ocuk for a 10er

I really wanted a cooler that would fit in the case. If I just ran it at home I could run it with the side off, but the idea was that I'd be able to take this PC places (hence getting a case with a handle) so it's not really practical.

Orange Nexus · 4 Apr 2019 at 21:12

GoogalyMoogaly said:
I wish I lived in your world where £38 was inexpensive!
I did consider this one at the time, but I believe it needed an adaptor that you had to send off for. I got a Cryorig C7 which was supposed to be about as good, but the adaptor seemed to come with the wrong bits (or I was too stupid to figure it out).
That said, now it comes with the adaptor it might be worth considering as although it's not cheaper, it's probably cheaper than changing everything.
Wondering if the "NH-L9X65 SE-AM4 LOW PROFILE CPU COOLER" would fit in the case. Gonna have to look it up (I doubt it, but a whisker).

My bad. I was gonna recommend the Spire but it seems you tried already and did not fit. But, that Noctua looks like same size as the Spire.

MaXxBoulton · 4 Apr 2019 at 21:28

GoogalyMoogaly said:
I really wanted a cooler that would fit in the case. If I just ran it at home I could run it with the side off, but the idea was that I'd be able to take this PC places (hence getting a case with a handle) so it's not really practical.

the stock 1700x cooler would fit in the case, the Wraith Spire size is 54mm. Your case will take a 58mm cooler.
you say the stock 1400 cooler dose a poor job, what do you call a poor job? in your case i5's thermal throttle with aftermarket coolers. i have owned that case and if you look on here many others have too and all say the CPU and GPu run HOT
one guy on here says his 8400 ran at 90c+ in games

GoogalyMoogaly · 4 Apr 2019 at 21:29

Orange Nexus said:
My bad. I was gonna recommend the Spire but it seems you tried already and did not fit. But, that Noctua looks like same size as the Spire.

Yeah, the NH-L9X65 won't fit. I couldn't remember the cooler clearance, but it's 58mm and that Noctua is, as the name suggests, 65mm.

GoogalyMoogaly · 4 Apr 2019 at 21:36

MaXxBoulton said:
the stock 1700x cooler would fit in the case, the Wraith Spire size is 54mm. Your case will take a 58mm cooler.
you say the stock 1400 cooler dose a poor job, what do you call a poor job? in your case i5's thermal throttle with aftermarket coolers. i have owned that case and if you look on here many others have too and all say the CPU and GPu run HOT
one guy on here says his 8400 ran at 90c+ in games

Oh really? Sorta puts an end to that idea then!
I can't remember exactly what the temps were with the stock cooler, I think it was around 60ºC without an overclock and over 70 with an overclock (but it was a while ago, so I may be mis-remembering).
The interesting thing is, I did buy a Wraith Spire and it doesn't fit. The heatsink fits, but the fan doesn't. I've been running the Wraith Spire heatsink with the Cryorig C7 fan. It works better than the stock Wraith Stealth cooler and isn't so bad with a light overclock (3.4/3.6GHz), but it's not a quiet fan at those sort of speeds.
The GPU is warm in this case, but not too hot. I'm running a reference GTX 980.

MaXxBoulton · 5 Apr 2019 at 06:11

@doyll will give your some fan setup advice in that case that may help. Having the cpu cooler in pull dose tend to be a good option.

But tbf 70c is not the worst I have see ryzen is a cooler running cpu. You can under-volt and cpu's

GoogalyMoogaly · 5 Apr 2019 at 11:05

MaXxBoulton said:
@doyll will give your some fan setup advice in that case that may help. Having the cpu cooler in pull dose tend to be a good option.

But tbf 70c is not the worst I have see ryzen is a cooler running cpu. You can under-volt and cpu's

Yeah, I'd like to try a pull configuration fan, so the Noctua is tempting. I've had 2 stick of RAM die on me in this PC and I'm not sure why, part of me wonders if it was always the stick nearest the CPU (I didn't take any notice) because of the hot air getting blown onto it.

GoogalyMoogaly · 7 Apr 2019 at 01:54

So I'm considering getting the Noctua NH-L9a-AM4, but I'm wondering if I should get the Noctua NH-L9i and get the AM4 kit too. Just because it means in the future I could re-use the cooler on a different build. I'm not sure what the chances of me needing a low profile cooler again are, but I can't see me doing another Ryzen build following this, at least not in SFF (in the ML08).

Is it worth the £7 to have the option of re-using the cooler with some other builds?

MaXxBoulton · 7 Apr 2019 at 07:27

Both coolers have a 65w TDP, and your cpu is a 65w cpu so there would be no overclocking and i would think some undervaluing needed

GoogalyMoogaly · 7 Apr 2019 at 13:35

MaXxBoulton said:
Both coolers have a 65w TDP, and your cpu is a 65w cpu so there would be no overclocking and i would think some undervaluing needed

Yeah, don't know what my other options are though. I don't think there's a better cooler that will fit.
Maybe I could get a better/25mm fan that might help a little?

MaXxBoulton · 7 Apr 2019 at 16:07

Do you have an intake fan fitted on top panel over the cpu section on the case

GoogalyMoogaly · 7 Apr 2019 at 16:28

MaXxBoulton said:
Do you have an intake fan fitted on top panel over the cpu section on the case

No, there's nowhere to attach one.

MaXxBoulton · 7 Apr 2019 at 17:36

a list of cooler that come with AM4 mounting kits included in the box, the coolers are all under 55mm and should fit your case.
Cryorig C7
ID Cooling IS-40V3
ID Cooling IS-50
ID Cooling IS-60v2 << 130w TDP
Noctua L9a

the AMD Wraith Spire that your tried is 71mm tall its the AMD Wraith Stealth that could in at 54mm.

I have also found out that the IHS Deck high is 4mm higher then a intel system, so the CPU clearance in your case will be 4mm off, making the 58mm and actual 54mm (give or take .05mm)
of the coolers listed the "ID Cooling IS-60" as the best cooling power but will be pushed right up to the case side panel.

on to under volt'in - you rally need to give this a go.
Run Cinebench and see what max CPU core voltage you get after a full run. (i use HWmonitor to see this)
go into bios and set CPU voltage to off set, and start with a CPU voltage of 0.00v(offset) test your system as before and see what max CPU core voltage you get after a full run.
if on the second run you have a higher core voltage start your offset adjusting to match this.... Say (TEST 1 1.250v) (TEST 2 1.275) your starting offset should be -0.030 to game you your first 0.005v drop over stock

Then start to go down in 0.005 steps in bios

GoogalyMoogaly · 7 Apr 2019 at 18:23

MaXxBoulton said:
a list of cooler that come with AM4 mounting kits included in the box, the coolers are all under 55mm and should fit your case.
Cryorig C7
ID Cooling IS-40V3
ID Cooling IS-50
ID Cooling IS-60v2 << 130w TDP
Noctua L9a

the AMD Wraith Spire that your tried is 71mm tall its the AMD Wraith Stealth that could in at 54mm.

I have also found out that the IHS Deck high is 4mm higher then a intel system, so the CPU clearance in your case will be 4mm off, making the 58mm and actual 54mm (give or take .05mm)
of the coolers listed the "ID Cooling IS-60" as the best cooling power but will be pushed right up to the case side panel.

on to under volt'in - you rally need to give this a go.
Run Cinebench and see what max CPU core voltage you get after a full run. (i use HWmonitor to see this)
go into bios and set CPU voltage to off set, and start with a CPU voltage of 0.00v(offset) test your system as before and see what max CPU core voltage you get after a full run.
if on the second run you have a higher core voltage start your offset adjusting to match this.... Say (TEST 1 1.250v) (TEST 2 1.275) your starting offset should be -0.030 to game you your first 0.005v drop over stock

Then start to go down in 0.005 steps in bios

I have a Cryorig C7 but it was before it came with the AM4 fittings, so I got them separately, but I think the kit contained the wrong parts as I can't see how to make it fit.
I've also tried the Wraith Stealth as that's what the 1400 came with, but it does not cool well.

I'll check some of the ID Cooling cooler.

I believe I was able to undervolt the cpu a bit, can't remember what to though. I want to say 0.1v but that seems high.

MaXxBoulton · 7 Apr 2019 at 18:39

GoogalyMoogaly said:
I have a Cryorig C7 but it was before it came with the AM4 fittings, so I got them separately, but I think the kit contained the wrong parts as I can't see how to make it fit.
I've also tried the Wraith Stealth as that's what the 1400 came with, but it does not cool well.

I'll check some of the ID Cooling cooler.

I believe I was able to undervolt the cpu a bit, can't remember what to though. I want to say 0.1v but that seems high.

contact Cryorig they may send you an am4 mounting kit if you have your invoice to show your the first owner

Edit: just stumbled on this. the Noctua NH-L9a looks good