Ryzen 5000 series refresh

[Dirk Diggler]

Does anyone know when/if a refresh is due for X570? I want to upgrade my 3700x but don't want to go 5800x if there's a refresh due?

 

[VersionMonkey]

Boards based on the X570S (the "S" stands for Silent apparently) are due out soon-ish (I think Q3 was hinted by Asus).

Gigabyte have already announced their boards here: https://www.gigabyte.com/Press/News/1920, but I don't think they've given any date for availability. I get the impression their announcement was mainly to try to disrupt Asus's teaser campaign.

Processor-wise I think there's only the 5000 series APUs expected this year.

 

[LePhuronn]

The only thing that's been said is the prototype 5900X with stacked cache shown at Computex will go into production end of this year. The demo showed a 12% uplift in gaming performance. So a refreshed Ryzen 5000 series around March next year?

I'd say something more than APUs was coming given the effort gone into the X570S platform refresh.

 

[Journey]

I'd fully expect the 5xxx Refresh at a point in time that Alder Lake is announced officially in terms of the launch date. That could be as early as the end of August, or as late as November this year.

 

[EsaT]

Boards based on the X570S (the "S" stands for Silent apparently) are due out soon-ish (I think Q3 was hinted by Asus).

X570 boards with properly designed chipset cooler have been capable to passive cooling from the start in properly cooled cases.
Asus just has designs done by rear hole of brand overhype marketroids.

 

[humbug]

There will be a Zen 3 refresh tho its more than a slight bump in clocks and a rebranding, they are gluing an extra 64MB cache on top of each die, 3D Stacking. According to AMD that will yield an extra 15% average gaming performance.

Not landing until early next year tho. Also on existing AM4.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

There will be a Zen 3 refresh tho its more than a slight bump in clocks and a rebranding, they are gluing an extra 64MB cache on top of each die, 3D Stacking. According to AMD that will yield an extra 15% average gaming performance.

Not landing until early next year tho. Also on existing AM4.

Interesting. I think I could wait for that as the 3700x copes fine @ 4k/120Hz for now.

 

[KompuKare]

The only thing that's been said is the prototype 5900X with stacked cache shown at Computex will go into production end of this year. The demo showed a 12% uplift in gaming performance. So a refreshed Ryzen 5000 series around March next year?

Yes. Have to wonder which SKUs though? Probably only 5800XT, 5900XT and 5950XT.
What we don't know if how much does the extra cache die and more importantly the packaging cost?
Will they be capacity constraints with possibly only one TSMC packaging line able to do the work?
And for that matter, what is the affect on yields? In that could it be that a perfectly good chiplet able to be binned for 5950X or EPYC could be broken during the 3D stacking step?
Lots of unknowns, but all very interesting.

 

[LePhuronn]

Yes. Have to wonder which SKUs though? Probably only 5800XT, 5900XT and 5950XT.

Depends on yields, since chiplets are chiplets are chiplets, and if you're stacking some cache on a 6 core chiplet then there's no reason not to do a 5600X. I think it greatly depends on how Alder Lake performs. Even if the big little design works well with Windows 11 (and rumours suggest it does) it's still not taking productivity crown back from the 12 and 16 core Ryzens. So, it's actually the 5600X and 5800X that would see more of a benefit in the marketplace.

But then the prototype was a 12 core part. Personally, I think everything is getting the 3D stacking. Refreshed X570S boards (and Gigabyte's new models have improvements to the VRMs and VRM cooling too), 3D stack everything for a full XT lineup, put Alder Lake back in the corner where it belongs.

What we don't know if how much does the extra cache die and more importantly the packaging cost?

The chiplets of course will be more expensive because of the extra work, but everything has been designed to fit in exactly the same dimensions as Vermeer (hence AM4 compatibility), so I doubt the packaging cost will change. We'll see.

Will they be capacity constraints with possibly only one TSMC packaging line able to do the work?

If you're referring to the overall assembly process, that's done in Singapore and Malaysia, not at TSMC. They just make the chiplets. But that does mean Singaporean capacity is in question if the X models continue to be made alongside the XT models.

And for that matter, what is the affect on yields? In that could it be that a perfectly good chiplet able to be binned for 5950X or EPYC could be broken during the 3D stacking step?

Apparently this isn't going to be an issue. TSMC's stacking technology is quite simple in comparison to Intel's, is already very mature and can reliably stack up to 12 layers. It's supposedly trivial to just stack 1 layer of "stuff" so won't affect yields.

But of course we'll see. I'd like to think though if it really is trivial to drop the cache on top then 100% chiplet production will have the cache, thus phasing out the existing X line of Ryzen CPUs in favour of an all-XT refresh, Milan X becomes a standard thing and Threadripper 5000 finally comes out.

 

[KompuKare]

@LePhuronn
Yes, had meant the assembly costs not just packaging.
Though I had read somewhere that the 3D stacking part was a very complex (not 7nm complex but full semiconductor clean room) and that TSMC handled it, hence my comment.
Unsure where/if I read it though.

 

[LePhuronn]

Yeah, the 3D stack is TSMC's process. Sure, it's hardly a simple thing in itself to take an existing chiplet, sand it down and then slap the cache on top (which is what the prototype did, whether that's how TSMC will produce real product I have no idea), but within the scope of what their process can handle, 1 layer is supposedly a piece of cake and shouldn't affect yields.

What the cost bump to the consumer is going to be I don't know.

 

[Twinz]

I had a 3800X and planned on waiting for the 5950X to drop in price. I was thinking I might pick one up near the end of this year in a black Friday sale or something.

The prototype 5900X actually spured me to buy a 5800X because I don't plan on paying launch/scalper prices on a refresh chip and end of 2022 (when the rfresh chips should come down in price) was longer than I wanted to wait for an upgrade. With the 5800X in my system, I am fine waiting for whatever the refresh is to become old news and drop in price a bit.

 

[JediFragger]

Interesting. I think I could wait for that as the 3700x copes fine @ 4k/120Hz for now.

Agreed, no need for 4k for quite while.