S-Trax Super Tweeter

[Freakbro]

Fyne Audio have released a new baby version of their SuperTrax 'super tweeter' the S-Trax and I've borrowed a pair from my audio guy for the week after he demo'd them at the monthly music night on Sunday. Where, I must say, I went in with a lot of scepticism, how is a tweeter that is producing frequencies I can't even hear going to improve the sound!

Having done a little reading up on them, it seems they are slightly controversial, with the differing camps for and against, arguing the science of what they do against the 'this is another snake oil' product.

I must say though, it did change the sound of the demo system and everyone in the room seemed to think it was an improvement. In the setup he had it certainly improved the bass response and clarity of the mids.

Having tried them at home for a couple of days now, the most striking difference I have noticed is the extra air/height/scale in the upper frequencies, the choral intro to Lorna Shores Sun//Eater is quite a pronounced difference to me.

Also the widening of the soundstage, and the Fyne F700's I'm running have great dispersion anyway, but with say Tools Chocolate Chip Trip, the width the drums go when moving side to side across the soundstage is just great.

Here they are in situ

Using the conical Trax system Fyne have patented, which they put to good use with the downward firing bass port - the theory being it reflects the bass in a 360* wave rather than directly out of a port, these have the same idea, where the HF are reflected 360* to evenly fill the room.

I'll admit, aesthetically they don't look as good as the full fat SuperTrax version, but with those at £3k you need to have a money no object attitude to life lol. But then even with this baby version at £1k thats not to be sniffed at and we're not talking any night or day changes here, just that last bit of refinement to the sound.

I was worried that adding more HF to the mix could already make the quite forward (not bright! ) F700's a bit too edgy, but it hasn't and in a way overall I've found the HF just that bit smoother. Though for example with say Nick Caves Red Right Hand, there's a lot of in your face treble at the end and this accentuates that even more, though still doesn't make it too sharp.

All in all I've been fairly impressed with them, especially as I started out thinking they would be a bit pointless anyway, since they start well above my hearing range nowadays which tops out at around 14Khz! Also, afaik, CD quality digital music only goes to ~22khz and these super tweeters can go up to 80khz for the full version, so there's something they are doing in the 16-20Khz range to reduce overall distortion, increasing overall clarity.

 

[Freakbro]

Probably want to try moving it around the top (front to back) as that will effect phase response.

Fyne have a list of speakers and the position the tweeter has to be in to align the phase and timing with the speakers tweeter, for the F700's it's 46mm from the front of the cabinet

 

[Freakbro]

Is that an omni-directional super tweeter?

Yea, the firing of the HF's onto the cone above is supposed to disperse the waves in a full 360*, it's the same principle they use for their down firing bass port in the speaker, which is one of the main reasons I got the F700s as with my v.small room I've always had trouble taming the bass from rear ported speakers as I just can't get them off the wall enough.

Certainly looks interesting. I head a pair of SWs, probably 20 years. At the time, it would have been such a % of my total system cost, that it didn't make sense. Now, I'm running out of things to do, maybe I should look some more.

I've been quite impressed with this baby S-Trax version, though as @Admetos shows in his picture, aesthetically the full fat SuperTrax version looks so much better!

 

[Freakbro]

I kept meaning to ask but how does the music night work, where are you in the country?

It's in Lincolnshire, the music night is at a pub called The Red Lion in Revesby.

He runs them about once a month and either has a rep from one of the manufacturers demoing their latest stuff or he'll choose a theme himself. Recently we had a night listening to 6 versions of rega turntables etc.

I think Chord are coming to the next one, we've had Fyne, JBL, Cyrus and many others over the years. He also did a factory tour of Cyrus over at their manufacturing place in Nottingham, which was cool.

 

[Freakbro]

This sounds really good. I would have come but unfortunately your to far away..

People don't have access enough to different gear (including myself) but this is helping to solve this.

The Chord demo, I've been in their demos. you should find that interesting if you've never experienced a/b testing of cables and mains products.

I'm lucky in that respect, John lets us borrow anything we want from what he stocks, hence I've had these super tweeters for the week to play with, so I think I've a/b tested just about everything I've bought, inc cables.

When I was upgrading my Kef R3's I had about 20k's worth of speakers in my room at one point haha.

He moved up to Lincs during covid and saw the gap in the market, as our closest high end hifi previously was in Nottingham!, and I was his first ever customer. I always get a good 10-15% discount off rrp too.

He mentioned chord are bringing their new subwoofer cables to the next one.

Do you get many people at the events, how popular are they. I presume they are organised on meet up.

It's quite a little social club now, with mostly the regulars attending. It can vary from say 6-10 on the low side, with this last one having 20+, probably one of best attended tbh.

He puts the dates on his website, but we've been hassling him to setup a WhatsApp group.

 

[Freakbro]

@Admetos what cabling are you using for the SuperTrax?

Had another music night recently and the Chord rep came over, initially to bring their subwoofer cables to test out (can't say many of us noticed much difference tbh) but he had also got the factory to knock up some bespoke SuperTrax cables as well, in EpicXL and SignatureXL

So we started the night with just some bog standard Chord rumour cable on the ST's John had quickly knocked up in his shop (say £30). We listened and it was fine.

Then we tried the Fyne Audio cables they make for the ST (£300) and the difference was immediately noticable, just so much sweeter all round. I've got to say I was surprised, and impressed, that it made such a noticable difference.

Then we tried the Chord EpicXL. And as much as John and the Chord rep gushed about the improvement, to me, I didn't like them as much as the Fyne Cables, things just seemed to have a bit more of an edge.

Then came the Chord SignatureXL and immediately things were back to sweet again and I'd say they were on par, if not a little better, than the Fyne ones. There were no prices for the Chord cables, as that was the first they had ever made (in the Signature) but the rep just said they would make some up on demand, at any length required.

 

[Freakbro]

I guessed you would have some decent cabling on them, just thought I'd give the experience we had of the difference better cables were making!

Sorry to hear of your loss btw :-/

 

[Freakbro]

So how are you currently wiring your F700's and Super tweeter up?

I don't have the S-Trax's yet, just had them on demo for a week, but they're on my list to get at some point. I would like the SuperTrax (ofc ) but unless getting a second hand/ex-demo for the right money I can't afford or justify the full price, so I'll probably get the S-Trax instead. I see they've now also released the SuperTrax in black, as before now the walnut wouldn't go with my setup anyway.

I've got a mix of EpicXL and SignatureXL through my system with interconnects and speaker cable.

Hope they coated those cables in snake oil before shipping them out.

Oh for sure cables aren't VFM in the slightest, but my experience tells me they do make a difference, so I'm not in the snake oil camp.

I was looking at some second hand Signature cable on ebay (from main AV retailer) but the listing ended. I phoned them up to check they had been sold, which they had. The guy rang me back in 5 mins and offered me a new set (straight from Chord as they are made to order) for virtually the same money, which was c.50% off and I know they'll still be making a good margin on that!

 

[Freakbro]

What cable were they using to connect to the main speakers from the amp?

Chord Sarum t.

I've pulled the trigger on a pair of S-trax's, hopefully they were delivered yesterday and I'll pick them up at Sundays music night

 

[Freakbro]

Yep, I'm just using some spare cable and have earthed it the the Denon AV chassis, which has a specific grounding terminal for turntables.

 

[Freakbro]

@Admetos I picked up my S-Trax last week and John made me up some basic cable for free and lent me those Fyne cables and a Chord Epic set. Which was the same setup as he used at the demo night and unsurprisingly I had the same results at home!

ie : the basic cable worked but the Fyne ones were a significant improvement. I didn't even bother with the Epic as at the demo I found them to be worse than Fynes anyway, so I've just ordered a set of the above too

As an aside, have you tried any of those equipment isolation feet, like the Isoaccoustics Orea? Something else I was quite sceptical about, until I tried them at home..... and now I have them under my streamer and amp!

 

[Freakbro]

I've not used IsoAcoustics Orea's, but I have 2 IsoAcoustics Delos's platforms in maple. One under my turntable, and the other under the SACD player / DAC. I was surprised but it helped even the SACD player in DAC mode very slightly. And I'm already running Atacama Eris 5 racks that are already providing isolation, so the improvement from the Delos platforms is after those. Under my Delos platforms there are feet that look very similar in design to the Orea's.

Yea, I've got the Atacama rack and still found the Orea's under the streamer and amp tightened the bass and improved clarity.

Back to speaker grounding. How much difference do you find it makes? For example if you were to ground only one speaker then adjust left / right balance would it be obvious, or are you finding the difference very subtle.

Cheers
Jason

The speaker grounding of the F700's? I've not actually done any A/B testing tbh, it was a simple thing to do so I just did it, I didn't think it would have any negative effects so didn't really check to see if there were any positives, though I'm just using a bit of earth wire atm

Just to give @200sols another laugh another thing I borrowed for this weekend was a mains conditioner, an Isol 8 powerline ultra, and I guessed it would make a difference, I just didn't think it would make that much difference!

 

[Freakbro]

@Admetos I got my Fyne S-Trax cable yesterday. When ordering them I had asked John and the Fyne rep who was there if they would make them any shorter, since 1.5M is far too long for the F700's and looked a bit unsightly. John followed up and hassled their Sales manager, who hassled the factory and they have now gone and made a shorter set specifically for the F700! And I've obviously got the first ones they made

I said to John Fyne must be happy with you, since he's sold quite of lot of their speakers and tweeters now, and they had recently said to him that he individually has sold more of their stuff than some countries lol.

He'd just received some F703SPs for the upcoming demo night and I had a listen, very nice indeed. He mentioned Fyne are thinking of discontinuing the 700's, since they have no 6" driver they can take from the higher range to make an SP version, which John isn't keen on them doing, since they are a good seller for the price/performance bracket. So if he can convince them they may look to design a whole new 6" driver to upgrade it to a SP instead.

 

[Freakbro]

That's pretty cool they have custom made an SC1 cable for you. How are you finding the f700's with S-Trax now?

Great! Though its a case of that things just sound 'normal' now with a super tweeter and flat without

It's good they demoed the 703sp as these speakers are not easy to physically move

60 odd kilos each....

What does John use as amp/pre amp/audio source.

It can be various things on demo nights, but his default is a Rega aethos, Rega TT and a bluesound node streamer.

 

[Freakbro]

As mentioned before, I first listened to SuperTrax at the 2024 North West Audio Show, I knew I had to have them.

How are you getting on with the power conditioning?

It was a bit of a game changer tbh so I looked on ebay and managed to get 2 blocks, with power cables, for about a third what it would have been new, so pleased with that!

When the second one arrives I'm going to organise everything at the back of the rack, which has just turned into a spaghetti of cables...so this is a convenient excuse to try and tidy it all up. But since it's my AV as well with a 5.4.2 speaker config, and the 2 amps, it's one hell of a mess back there! But if I can even just get some separation between the power and speaker cables I'll be happy

 

[Freakbro]

Remind me again what power conditioning your running.

The isol-8 powerline. Managed to get 2 of them (still waiting for 1) so they've each got 1 high power socket for things like an amp - so Denon AV in 1 and the Aethos in the other. Then 3 other source sockets each, which is enough for the rest of the equipment.

The only unknown atm, is if the 'normal' sockets are ok for the subs since I assume they are quite high draw. I assume theyll be fine, but some conflicting info when I googled, but can but try.

You have to experiment with what's best regarding cables and what is plugged into where. Once your happy then rebuild up the racks putting cables in there best place for management and routing.

If your running AV I presume you have a htpc, mine is on its own power filter away from the audio block as the computer will inject noise. I then use an iFi defender on the USB port to isolate into my DAC.

I use an Nvidia shield as the media streamer, the server & pc's are in another room.

 

[Freakbro]

Wow, thats really interesting and informative @Admetos !

Ive just checked and the Isol-8 powerline ultra doesn't incorporate DC blocking, but the other one I've ordered, the Isol-8 1080 does and that one has the specific TV socket too.

Both have 1 high power socket (with shunt filters) and 3 source sockets (with transmodal filters) - you'll know what that means more than me lol.

So probably best to use the 1080 on the stereo setup (aethos, streamer & DAC and TV will reach) and the ultra on the AV amp
and other items.

So would the subwoofers be better straight into the wall, rather than in the basic extension leads (monster ones) that they're currently in?

 

[Freakbro]

So you have 2 amps, one for stereo, and an AV amp? Then 2 subs also?

Yep, and the Denon (AV) uses the front pre-outs going into the Aethos (Stereo) via the HT bypass to drive the front speakers.

Then both subs are connected to the Denon via the LFE channels and to the Aethos speaker posts with the high level inputs.

There is no right or wrong, you have to try all combinations and listen to what is best.

Over the DC filtering, it depends how much (if any) DC is on your mains. If you have a toroidal transformer DC on the mains will make that transformer 'hum' if you get your ear next to is. I'm lucky I don't appear to have any DC on the mains.

Those ISO-8's are filtering very well, even the high-current socket is using some passive filtering.

I would put one stereo amp on a high current socket, then the AV amp on the other high current socket of other strip. Then put everything associated with that respective amp on same associated socket, so all the stereo gear on same socket. Put the stereo gear on the one with DC filtering, as your stereo is more important for critical listening.

Over the subs on the wall. That would be better then using the monster socket extension. I would also try a sub on a filtered socket out of curiosity, but you probably end up using them on a wall.

As with your S-Trax super-tweeters, you have to be a critical listener. You have to try different combinations of things.

The things your listening for is increased musicality (from lower impedance AC), also high frequency distortion that effects long listening sessions. Also distortion in amplifiers that effect the amplifiers head-room.

The goal is to get to a stage, where your not thinking about gear / setup any more. And you just turn the audio gear on, and focus only on the music / sound.

Also you can think there's an issue in one area, but it's from another issue. Quick example, you can think you need to turn-down your S-Trax on the presence control, however the issue is high frequency noise getting into DAC and your confusing it and thinking it's the S-Trax set to high That's a quick example of what can happen with your setup at the stage your at. Over time and trying different things and listening, you'll optimise everything.

*thumbs up*

 

[Freakbro]

How do you ensure in AV mode your sub isn't reproducing signal from the high level inputs? (as you would only want the LFE signals to be reproduced)

I did think of that when setting up so checked, and in the manual it does say both inputs can be used at the same time.

Would it be the settings in the AV, as the fronts aren't set to full, so crossover setting only sends (say) 80Hz and below to the subs and above to fronts.

Then the subs have a crossover dial themselves from 40 - 120hz, so with all set at the same frequency that would stop it receiving double signals from the lfe and high level?

The BK Electronics XXLS400 does not have a feature to automatically prioritize the LFE channel over the high-level input. Instead, it is designed to allow the simultaneous connection and use of both inputs, with separate gain controls for each, allowing you to blend the two sources.
This design allows the subwoofer to handle both movie LFE signals from an AV processor and music bass from a stereo amplifier seamlessly.

 

[Freakbro]

I've emailed Tom at BKelec and it is as I mentioned above

Hello xxxxxx

If you have the frequency on the subwoofer set lower than in you AV's subwoofer menu then there should not be a problem

On the high level input for music, it's usual to set the frequency on the subwoofer to match the lowest frequency your speaker can get down to, lets say that is 50Hz

On the low level input the filter is bypassed, Filter In / Out Switch in "Out" position. A frequency is set in the AVR normally around 80 Hz

There is no problem with music as the LFE signal is switched off in HT Bypass. So when in movie mode there is 80Hz and above on the high level input and as you have set the frequency lower than 80hz on the subwoofer there should not be a problem.

Regards

Tom