Salary re-negotiation, based on newly acquired data

[paradigm]

Long story short,

Head of IT was "made redundant" (possibly, might have been coerced out, it all happened overnight) back in July, and I was tasked with leading the current pan-European (not huge, total of 9 people across the UK and Spain) IT Infrastructure team, whilst also taking on a more project-management oriented role (new satellite office rollouts, upgrading existing infrastructures, planning for group-wide telephony, etc). So far, none of this is "in writing" as it were (probably my first mistake), but an email chain from the directors and board members involved at least outlines these plans, and suggests that the role be made permanent "in the future". Also worth noting that I've also received no increase in remuneration thus far.

Today, whilst discussing a possible recruitment for a 2nd line analyst at a site that's up in Scotland (I'm down in Cheshire), it became apparent that a member of the team, who currently reports into me (as part of this "unofficial" promotion), and has to utilise me to fill in his knowledge gaps, and runs all technical decisions through me, is earning 13% more than I am. It's also worth noting that his is many years my junior, both in the company (7 years service vs 1 year), and in his career (12+ years for my, 4 for him). I also vastly out qualify him with industry-based (Microsoft, Cisco) credentials.

To say that I'm currently rather annoyed, and quite heavily demoralised is, an understatement. I'm aware that I need to do something about the situation, I'm just not sure on the best approach.

What would you do?

 

[dowie]

erm ask for more money

 

[paradigm]

Yes, thanks. I was more thinking in terms of how and with what medium to broach the topic. It's not a small single-site business, I can't necessarily a) physically see, or b) immediately talk to anyone directly involved, I also (due to the scenario laid out above) have no line manager.

 

[the_r_sole]

who are you currently reporting to?
Someone must be able to make a decision on your remuneration - just ask for a meeting about your job role and take it from there.

the only thing is, you have to make it about your role and skills, what someone else is getting paid isn't really a reason for them to give you a rise - and you can't really tell them that you have found that out!

7 years in a company which probably has small incremental raises vs someone that's come in to a fairly buoyant market and been good at negotiating. It's a lot easier for the new guy to negotiate upwards

 

[Random Guy]

First of all, I am going to assume you are not viewed as easily replaceable and your relationship with superiors and side-wise colleagues are all solid. Second, that your company is in good financial health with no alarming issues to report.

In that case the priority is to escalate this to the individual (usually but not always your LM) in very clear terms i.e. it is an unacceptable situation and you will walk if you don't see it addressed. You need to come to such a discussion with proof of the above points from your OP, sample comparison salaries for similar positions in the industry sector which you work, and very importantly, hold the discussion in a calm, reasonable manner with no emotion, naming and shaming, or ultimatums.

If you do not do so, your company will happily keep you at your current pay level, with the perception that you are a satisfied and hard-working team member.

That leaves the only question - when is the best time? Are you coming up to a review, annual budget/results, or the end/imminent rollout of a significant project which will have you starting from an even stronger bargaining position? And is it worth waiting for a year (as opposed to the 6 months you currently have) at least to elapse, until you consider yourself "proven" in your role? Those are questions only you can answer.

Hope it helps.

 

[dowie]

Yes, thanks. I was more thinking in terms of how and with what medium to broach the topic. It's not a small single-site business, I can't necessarily a) physically see, or b) immediately talk to anyone directly involved, I also (due to the scenario laid out above) have no line manager.

I'd send an e-mail and ask for a meeting

then just ask them for more money

 

[Housey]

How was it 'made apparent'?

 

[paradigm]

How was it 'made apparent'?

Well, bluntly, after discussing what salary he thought appropriate for his junior, and realising that it was around that of my own salary, I asked him if he wouldn't mind divulging the information of his own salary.

He had no issues as he was under the impression I earned 20% more than him anyway.

First of all, I am going to assume you are not viewed as easily replaceable and your relationship with superiors and side-wise colleagues are all solid. Second, that your company is in good financial health with no alarming issues to report.

In that case the priority is to escalate this to the individual (usually but not always your LM) in very clear terms i.e. it is an unacceptable situation and you will walk if you don't see it addressed. You need to come to such a discussion with proof of the above points from your OP, sample comparison salaries for similar positions in the industry sector which you work, and very importantly, hold the discussion in a calm, reasonable manner with no emotion, naming and shaming, or ultimatums.

If you do not do so, your company will happily keep you at your current pay level, with the perception that you are a satisfied and hard-working team member.

That leaves the only question - when is the best time? Are you coming up to a review, annual budget/results, or the end/imminent rollout of a significant project which will have you starting from an even stronger bargaining position? And is it worth waiting for a year (as opposed to the 6 months you currently have) at least to elapse, until you consider yourself "proven" in your role? Those are questions only you can answer.

Hope it helps.

The company appear to be going from strength to strength, we are growing through both acquisition and natural growth. Projects are thick and fast at the moment, it was only at the end of the last quarter that I was presented with the "employee of the quarter" award, for recognition of going above and beyond to deliver results not only ahead of schedule, but also under budget.

I doubt an additional 6 months in the role would make my position any stronger after the above.

 

[Random Guy]

Well, bluntly, after discussing what salary he thought appropriate for his junior, and realising that it was around that of my own salary, I asked him if he wouldn't mind divulging the information of his own salary.

He had no issues as he was under the impression I earned 20% more than him anyway.



The company appear to be going from strength to strength, we are growing through both acquisition and natural growth. Projects are thick and fast at the moment, it was only at the end of the last quarter that I was presented with the "employee of the quarter" award, for recognition of going above and beyond to deliver results not only ahead of schedule, but also under budget.

I doubt an additional 6 months in the role would make my position any stronger after the above.

Then I would prepare and pull the trigger on this discussion. Best of luck.

 

[Gilly]

TBH the salary of other individuals, whilst I don't really agree with it, isn't down to seniority or capability.

I would take the information that you've given us into a meeting with whoever you're reporting to, without mentioning the earnings of the other individual. You know what he's worth, so you can infer from that information that you are worth more, but someone reliant on you being paid more isn't justification for you to be. You need to give a business case for it.

Until recently I had someone reporting into me on over £20k more than me.

 

[Housey]

Well, bluntly, after discussing what salary he thought appropriate for his junior, and realising that it was around that of my own salary, I asked him if he wouldn't mind divulging the information of his own salary.

As has been said all you have now is a bit more insight, other than this northing has really changed. You now need to build your case for more money and what you offer that warrants it. Business is rarely fair, people try and kid you it is but it isn't. I'd urge you not to buy into (as a general point) the mind set of "if you do this for another 24 months we might...". That is what people who need to feel progression do, you know, the masses and masses of people around you in the office.

Get out there and keep pushing to do stuff quicker because other people will be. You will not keep good people with "give it another 24 months and come see me" discussions, so many people miss this and plod along and wonder why the bloke who pitched up 9 months ago got the job ahead of them for "i've been here years, it should have been me". In my experience it is usually because they are better, not because they kissed ass...which is the retort of the majority who lost out. If you don't get what you think you deserve then my advice is move on.

Good luck!

 

[Royal Fleet]

Different people will approach this in different ways. The right answer is the one that suits your own style, and more importantly the style of the person making the decision.

If it was me I would

- Industry benchmark myself - how much am I paid relative the market. Should be simple enough to do by looking at JobServe.
- Assuming that shows you are underpaid and could walk for more I would have an informal 'off the record' discussion with the person I report to. This should not force this person into a decision but lay the groundwork for a subsequent formal discussion.
- If they respond positively but say not now - agree a timescale for when
- if they respond negatively - dust off the CV

Bear in mind if they have made someone redundant from a position they can't immediately fill it again. Otherwise it is a sacking.

 

[D3K]

What would you do?

I'd go crazy in my own head until it was resolved. Even after it was resolved I would find it hard to let it slide, unless I was backpaid the difference to when your junior started. Getting the same salary as him + the X% you feel is appropriate for the seniority level will probably be hard enough, getting back pay is unlikely. I would inevitably end up leaving.

I just got a new job and I haggled like crazy over the difference in salary expectations (5k diff). In the end, they went up by 1k citing that I had to be in line with the other members of staff at the same level. Despite being miffed at such a meagre compromise, it was ultimately the recruiter that screwed me and the company's reasoning feels correct.

 

[dowie]

I would find it hard to let it slide, unless I was backpaid the difference to when your junior started.

get a grip, that is very unlikely to happen

you agree to a salary when you start work, you are given pay rises and you can ask at any time for more if you're not happy - you don't get back pay because you agreed to work for less than someone else

OP can likely correct the situation going forwards by simply arranging a meeting and asking for more money - since he's taking on more responsibility etc..

 

[D3K]

get a grip, that is very unlikely to happen

you agree to a salary when you start work, you are given pay rises and you can ask at any time for more if you're not happy - you don't get back pay because you agreed to work for less than someone else

OP can likely correct the situation going forwards by simply arranging a meeting and asking for more money - since he's taking on more responsibility etc..

Get a grip? What industry do you work in where you are comfortable with juniors coming in below you and making more money than you off the back of your own knowledge and expertise?

I already stated it wouldn't happen which is why I wouldn't last much longer.
I had to take non-optional soft skill classes at uni on such things as integrity and morals for engineers and their responsibility to each other and the public, etc. The kind of behaviour the OP's company has displayed goes against some of the key principles from such classes. But classes aside, a company with that kind of moral compass can go screw itself.

 

[dowie]

Get a grip? What industry do you work in where you are comfortable with juniors coming in below you and making more money than you off the back of your own knowledge and expertise?

I wouldn't be... but I wouldn't expect 'back pay' either - if you want more money then negotiate for more money.

But classes aside, a company with that kind of moral compass can go screw itself.

I think you're being a tad naive - it is common in all sorts of workplaces for people doing the same job to be on different rates of pay or even for situations like the OP's to occur. Employers generally try not to have big pay differences but they also have to pay market rates in order to recruit people... and just because they're making a new hire doesn't mean they're necessarily just going to automatically dish out money to all existing staff members.

Unless you have a very ridged hierarchy with set grades then you'll find that salary is usually confidential information partly for this reason - this probably applies to the majority of private sector employers.

 

[oldbag]

Sounds like they are taking the proverbial out of you. Go and see your boss and ask for a payrise. Check the market and take evidence if it is that kind of place. If you get some airy fairy answer, look for another job.

 

[A2Z]

My first ever job after uni doing 1st line support I was on a certain salary, 1.5 years later they put out an advert for a new member about 15% higher than I or any other support member was.

To say we were all ****ed was an understatement. Within 6 months the rest of us all ended up quiting. Not only due to this but it was a big reason.

 

[cadmunkey]

Just sounds like you've fallen victim to 'being part of the furniture' syndrome that most employees face at some point in their careers. Jobs and renumeration evolve over time - what was an acceptable starting salary for you obviously is a a completely different figure for your younger and less experienced counter part. Add that to the fact that you've probably been getting bog standard average pay rises over the years means your salary was never going to be in line with newer employees. The fact is you should have been keeping on top of going rates in your industry all this time, but at least now you have chance to address it and learn from your mistake. Companies will rarely ever voluntarily pay you what you are worth.

 

[paradigm]

Well, looks like I'll be going two-pronged on moving forward with this. I've documented, timelined, and justified in as much detail, the reasons I believe that a) I'm under-paid, b) I'm suitable for taking an official promotion to the position I'm filling now, and c) I will mention that I will put the wheels in motion to move on if nothing can be done for me.

I've re-done my CV, however it's only really a brief update, it was re-done mid 2015, and to be fair, the phone hasn't stopped ringing since. I've been turning down roles for the best part of 6 months mainly due to wanting to be with the company whom I thought I gelled with well. Clearly this is no longer the case (nor ever was, seemingly), so I'll be taking up more opportunities going forward.