Salting & Grilling steak - a final word?

oli collett · 17 Jun 2011 at 19:49

Right, we've had a lot of threads about steak of late and various debates within them about whether you should/shouldn't salt the steak in advance, the best ways to grill etc.

Well, earlier today I had the pleasure of chatting to Jack O'Shea (http://www.jackoshea.com/page-about.php) about seasoning, grilling and beef. Jack is regarded as one of the top butchers in Europe and consults with some of the top chefs including Heston Blumenthal (you may have seen him in the burger episode of the perfection series). It's fair to say he knows a fair bit about every stage of meat consumption, from the cow to the plate!

I mentioned that we had been debating on a forum the value of salting meat in advance, and he was very clear on this - he always salts well in advance (~30mins) of cooking, and advises his customers the same. He said the restaurants that he supplies do this as well. He was quite surprised when I mentioned someone on here suggested Hawksmoor don't as he believed it to be the best way to prepare steak and that the science was quite clear on this. As for whether it's only worth doing on new meat that's not been dry aged - well all his beef is dry aged for around 28-45 days. As I've suggested in the past, it's not just about tenderising the meat, it's also about seasoning it.

Another tip he had though was around grilling - flipping the steak over every 30 seconds. I believe it's been mentioned on here before, but he talked about when he was in Belgium at a food show with the head chef at the fat duck, demonstrating this method of grilling steaks in front of various top chefs in Europe. The theory is that if you flip it every 30 seconds, the juices within the steak will not get the chance to flow out of the steak, as they are constantly changing direction from one way to another. They demonstrated this by cooking 2 different steaks and true enough there was virtually no juice left over from cooking the steak in this manner compared to a fair bit of juice left over from the other steak. I believe it was Harold McGee that first theorised this method of cooking steak, it's a simple tip and worth keeping in mind!

Anyway, hope that's useful to some folk - just don't be afraid of the salt!

Rich_L · 17 Jun 2011 at 19:57

Cool

It makes sense if you think about it, the aged steak will have less water content whereas fresh meat you might want to draw out some of the liquid with the salt - and obviously salt as seasoning goes without saying.

That's cool about the flipping

You'd need a hella-hot pan to get the desired sear marks though flipping it every 30 secs.

Good info! Sounds like an interesting bloke to chat to, it's always cool talking to pro chefs let alone proper experts like that - I lived with a chef for a year and learnt so many little tips from him.

oli collett · 17 Jun 2011 at 20:01

Rich_L said:
Cool

It makes sense if you think about it, the aged steak will have less water content whereas fresh meat you might want to draw out some of the liquid with the salt - and obviously salt as seasoning goes without saying.

That's cool about the flipping You'd need a hella-hot pan to get the desired sear marks though flipping it every 30 secs.

Good info! Sounds like an interesting bloke to chat to, it's always cool talking to pro chefs let alone proper experts like that - I lived with a chef for a year and learnt so many little tips from him.

He's brilliant, always has time for people and if he's not there the rest of the staff are great too. Got chatting to a couple of the lads in there once and it turned out they had trained in one of the top butchers in New York before going to Jack O'Shea, and they were only young. The prices are also a lot more reasonable than people might think.

Definitely worth a visit if you're in London!

Gilly · 17 Jun 2011 at 20:08

Rich_L said:
That's cool about the flipping You'd need a hella-hot pan to get the desired sear marks though flipping it every 30 secs.

Once you've sealed it you can probably get away with lengthening the time of flipping.

Haircut · 17 Jun 2011 at 20:54

What you've posted in the OP goes along with the thoughts from the food lab on ceriouseats.com, which I've posted before.
The guy who does it actually performs scientific analysis to see what works and what doesn't and it's probably one of the best food columns I've read.
I know I've posted the link before in another thread, but I think it justifies a repost here.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03/the-food-lab-more-tips-for-perfect-steaks.html

oli collett · 17 Jun 2011 at 20:58

Haircut said:
What you've posted in the OP goes along with the thoughts from the food lab on ceriouseats.com, which I've posted before.
The guy who does it actually performs scientific analysis to see what works and what doesn't and it's probably one of the best food columns I've read.
I know I've posted the link before in another thread, but I think it justifies a repost here.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03/the-food-lab-more-tips-for-perfect-steaks.html

Yep - cheers for that, it's an excellent resource, I should have included it in the OP!

Glaucus · 17 Jun 2011 at 21:04

Flipping it, should be done with burgers and other meat products. It gives a more even heat distribution and lower heat variation between internal and external.

Xelene · 17 Jun 2011 at 22:42

Gilly said:
Once you've sealed it you can probably get away with lengthening the time of flipping.

You don't really seal a piece of meat, it still leaks. The point is to burn the bacteria off of the surface.

I've been salting chicken just recently and it does help firm the meat up.

dannyjo22 · 18 Jun 2011 at 10:10

Gilly said:
Once you've sealed it you can probably get away with lengthening the time of flipping.

I'm amazed people still think you can seal meat.

I will try that flipping method, after leaving mine to rest for a few minutes I never really have an issue but I will give it a run anyway.

Glaucus · 18 Jun 2011 at 10:31

dannyjo22 said:
I'm amazed people still think you can seal meat.
.

They don't, it's a valid saying though and well known. What's the problem with saying it. The only problem is that you and others take it literally.

SEAL OR SEAR : To expose the surface of meat to extreme heat in a hot pan or oven for the purpose of browning before cooking at a lower temperature; a partial-cooking process and by so doing enhance the flavor.

dannyjo22 · 18 Jun 2011 at 13:25

AcidHell2 said:
They don't, it's a valid saying though and well known. What's the problem with saying it. The only problem is that you and others take it literally.

I'm sorry but they do mean it. The amount of times I've read it on this forum with people thinking it's sealing in the juice is testamant why I'm taking it literally when people say it.

Even on cooking shows people still say seal in the juice. That's why I'm taking it literally because people mean it.

Harold Mcgees book on food and cooking is the book that started Blumenthal to realise what utter drivel it is and the book that kick started him to look deeper into the science of food.

Lastly "it's a valid saying though and well known" welll known what, that it is incorrect. Well it's not a valid saying then is it.

Glaucus · 18 Jun 2011 at 13:31

Of course it's valid, as it doesn't mean to seal in the juices. Unless they say seal it to seal in the juices. Then the word is fine and absolutely nothing wrong with it.

FrenchTart · 18 Jun 2011 at 13:33

AcidHell2 said:
They don't, it's a valid saying though and well known. What's the problem with saying it. The only problem is that you and others take it literally.

From the context, it is clear that is was meant as a literal 'seal'. Re-read the post.

lookitsjonno · 18 Jun 2011 at 22:51

do you mean apply lots of salt 30 minutes before to extract the water and wash it off prior to cooking?

Doctor McNinja · 19 Jun 2011 at 01:34

lookitsjonno said:
do you mean apply lots of salt 30 minutes before to extract the water and wash it off prior to cooking?

The idea of seasoning more than thirty minutes before cooking is to give the steak time to reabsorb the moisture that is drawn out by the application of salt. I highly recommend reading the seriouseats article - http://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03/the-food-lab-more-tips-for-perfect-steaks.html.

Gilly · 19 Jun 2011 at 10:57

dannyjo22 said:
I'm sorry but they do mean it. The amount of times I've read it on this forum with people thinking it's sealing in the juice is testamant why I'm taking it literally when people say it.

Even on cooking shows people still say seal in the juice. That's why I'm taking it literally because people mean it.

Harold Mcgees book on food and cooking is the book that started Blumenthal to realise what utter drivel it is and the book that kick started him to look deeper into the science of food.

Lastly "it's a valid saying though and well known" welll known what, that it is incorrect. Well it's not a valid saying then is it.

I like a drier crust on my steaks. That's why I 'seal' it.

It caramelises it.

Problem?

The juices will go from the very edge, then start flipping to keep it moist in the middle

Sampsy · 19 Jun 2011 at 17:32

I like it nice and crispy on the outside, but medium rare on the inside

Scam · 19 Jun 2011 at 18:57

I've read that link. Really interesting and I will be doing it next time I cook steak. But its a bit unclear- are we talking more salt than usual? Or just the amount you would usually season with?

oli collett · 19 Jun 2011 at 19:57

Scam said:
I've read that link. Really interesting and I will be doing it next time I cook steak. But its a bit unclear- are we talking more salt than usual? Or just the amount you would usually season with?

More. I give the surface a light coating of flaked salt.

Doctor McNinja · 20 Jun 2011 at 12:32

oli collett said:
More. I give the surface a light coating of flaked salt.

Why would you use more than you would normally use for seasoning? You don't remove any of the salt, so surely using more salt is incorrect.