Schiit Fulla 2 a good option or overkill?

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Hi guys,

I've been using the onboard on my ASRock Z370 Extreme4 for about a year, it's ok. Unfortunately asrock keep borking the audio drivers and seem unable/unwilling to sort the problem (it's been going on for months and months on their forum).
I've been lucky that it's been ok ish for me using my speakers, but with headphones it's unusable.

So I want to give up on onboard, read some reviews, got recommended the Schiit Fulla. I use an old set of Creative T40 Series II speakers, and a pair of Sennheiser HD 449. I want to games, listen to a bit of music and watch films/TV. I use the headphones in the evening when it's baby sleep time. Am I looking at the right thing?

Thanks!
 
I have the Fulla 2, really like it.

I use it with HD595 , get 2x usb cables for it. Can't remember if it came with any or not.

I got tired with poor drivers from all manufacturers over the years. Wish I'd bought one sooner!

I use it for gaming and music.
 
Ace thanks for the reply bledd, think it might have to be an early Christmas present :) Yep the driver support is beyond annoying, you update to fix one problem and it causes another one which just never gets sorted.
 
Schiit Fulla 2 is a good DAC/amp.

I'll ask what Esat would ask if he were here; wouldn't you want to make use of positional sound location in games?

If you don't care about that though and just want decent quality plain stereo, then a DAC/amp is certainly the way to go.
 
Now is it any wonder that needing to trust control software being automatically downloaded from Windows Store is bad, when Microsoft has regularly broken updates to their own OS and drivers from Windows update are too often bad?

Sure miss old times when you needed PC to get infected by virus to get it messed...
Guess I should do list of the most harmfull auto trash up features to disable, before receiving my new ThinkPad X1 Yoga (hopefully in Friday) and letting it connect to Microsoft's servers.


HD449 is very easy load with 70 millivolts and 0,14 milliwatts enough for 90dB and doesn't need any special output
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD449.pdf
And if you want seamless switching between speakers and headphones without need to swap cables that isn't exactly what single purpose DACs are good at at.

Also for gaming (or watching movies) with headphones they seriously lack in features.
That PC certainly isn't build for playing some Minesweeper and you should be aiming for more similar level immersion in sound than graphics.
Actually good headphones can give very nice immersion of even feel of distance when fed signal with binaural cues brain uses to position sound sources.
First minute of this is very good for testing real gaming capability of headphones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI
Though frequency response and square wave response of HD449 hints them having more than small problems.
 
Yes as a rule I try to only let a new Windows install on the internet once I've finished setting as much up as I can :) Gaming wise I had even given a thought to positional sound, I don't play many shooters, maybe a little Overwatch or Battlefield but it's mainly simulations/builders and turn based stuff like X-Com, Civ, MMOs.

Thanks for the replies - I'm not at all adverse to switching out the headphones if there is a better option instead of buying the usb dac/amp - any advice there totally welcomed :)
 
Reading some of the other threads on here and elsewhere it sounds like for around a £100 a pair of AKG K702 headphones might be a nice upgrade? Open backs would be pretty useful for using at home so I can still hear a bit of what's going on when I'm gaming. I understand something like the Creative E5/G5Gare a good option to get away from the onboard audio, but not sure if I want to be relying on something with drivers again, so maybe still the Fulla 2?
 
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Just for tbe record if the fulla uses USB connection then it'll have drivers of some description. In fact I've seen some people having issues with that the same as any other brand.

You could always use the optical out from your pc however, that would negate usb/driver issues on any device.
 
Yes USB audio devices use drivers, but DACs do not require additional drivers which sound cards do. Sound card drivers are usually fine until the support stops. A DAC will never have that problem.

I think the chances of having software issues with a USB DAC are much less than a sound card, purely because there are no additional drivers to install.

However; I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to break all audio, whatever it is....

Reading some of the other threads on here and elsewhere it sounds like for around a £100 a pair of AKG K702 headphones might be a nice upgrade? Open backs would be pretty useful for using at home so I can still hear a bit of what's going on when I'm gaming. I understand something like the Creative E5 are a good option to get away from the onboard audio, but not sure if I want to be relying on something with drivers again, so maybe still the Fulla 2?

AKG K702 are great for gaming and one of the best for positional sound location if used with SBX prostudio found on Creative sound cards.

I suppose it depends whether locating sounds from other players in FPS type games is something you'd really want. I've had it on a few sound cards I've had from Creative and Asus, but I don't use it now and I don't miss it at all; but then, like yourself, I don't play much in the way of FPS games and when I do, never competitively.

I've seen posts from various people when it comes to positional sound location in games; some want it, some aren't fussed and some think it just sounds bad. For those who could take it or leave it, maybe competitive is a key word when it comes whether positional sound is of real benefit or not. For those who play competitively, it's a must really, as it can be a real advantage when done well. For those who aren't bothered about playing competitively, maybe positional sound location is not really important. Of course though, it doesn't work for everyone, hence those who think it just sounds bad.

Esat seems to think it's a must have for anyone who plays a game and he can't seem to understand that some people don't want it or like it.

I suppose though, you can't know if it's something you'd miss if you've never experience it properly. The video that Esat linked would be a good way to get some idea of whether it would be something you are interested in.

If not, and you have no need for microphone input, a Fulla 2 or E10K are good options. That's one thing that hasn't been made clear yet; DACs are audio out only, no microphone input.

If positional sound location from a Creative Soundblaster E5 or similar is something you'd like, and it's the thought of bad drivers that is the only thing putting you off by getting a sound card, then Creative have been pretty good of late with their driver support. For a USB sound card, I'd take Creative over Asus any day. Asus driver support really is abysmal, and for their USB sound cards, there are no alternative modified drivers like there are for the internal Asus sound cards.

Seems to be swings and roundabouts though when it comes to sound card support. When Vista came out, Creative were abysmal. Asus did well at that period; now Asus are abysmal and Creative are doing well. Who knows if or when Creative will go back to being abysmal. For me, Bledd and some other's, having a sound card for positional sound location, is not important enough to have that it would be worth the bother should sound card driver support could go south, whether it be Creative or Asus. For those that really want what SBX prostudio provides, and get real benefit from it, it's most likely worth it even if there is a possibility that driver support could go south at any time.
 
Yes USB audio devices use drivers, but DACs do not require additional drivers which sound cards do. Sound card drivers are usually fine until the support stops. A DAC will never have that problem.

I think the chances of having software issues with a USB DAC are much less than a sound card, purely because there are no additional drivers to install.

Not strictly true. Any USB device will use some form of driver, whether manufacturer or ms provided.

Schiit provide drivers for their dacs in case ms doesn't work -
http://www.schiit.com/drivers

Fiio, smsl, radsone all use and supply drivers for their dacs. You may be able to get away with using the ms auto install version, you may not.
 
Ace thanks guys, I'm going to have a bit more thinking/reading time, but pretty much set on the K702 unless I see a huge deal on some K712 headphones. Still not sure on the DAC/amp, I think either a Fulla or an G5 might be a good match :)
 
Ace thanks guys, I'm going to have a bit more thinking/reading time, but pretty much set on the K702 unless I see a huge deal on some K712 headphones. Still not sure on the DAC/amp, I think either a Fulla or an G5 might be a good match :)
I don't think there's going to be much of price drops for K712.
I mean already the price AKG charges for its ear pads is ludicrous.
As in upward 50€ per one pad...
Makes K702's replacement pads look cheap.

For that price difference might as well give few dB bass boost in equalizer for K702 if wanting above neutral bass.
And "at stock" can't really get better sound to pick up details in gaming.
Like I've said some times before, next level up from K702&binaural sound would be having on screen map showing locations of sound sources around you.
You might not want to use speakers anymore at all when having good headphones.

But with the sorry state of PC game sounds you'll need something to do that binaural sound simulation...
Or sounds are posioned extremely accurately inside left or right ear, or in center of head.
Without binaural cues brain simply doesn't know where else to position them.
 
If in the future you want to start running higher end cans, it might be worth investing in something a bit more powerful. The Schiit stack, the odac e.t.c Likewise you might be better served by a portable Dac/Amp if you want something cheap for on the go.

I never think you should spend more money than you need to, but sometimes it's worth it if it opens up your upgrade path and reduces outlay in the future.
 
I don't think there's going to be much of price drops for K712.
I mean already the price AKG charges for its ear pads is ludicrous.
As in upward 50€ per one pad...
Makes K702's replacement pads look cheap.

For that price difference might as well give few dB bass boost in equalizer for K702 if wanting above neutral bass.
And "at stock" can't really get better sound to pick up details in gaming.
Like I've said some times before, next level up from K702&binaural sound would be having on screen map showing locations of sound sources around you.
You might not want to use speakers anymore at all when having good headphones.

But with the sorry state of PC game sounds you'll need something to do that binaural sound simulation...
Or sounds are posioned extremely accurately inside left or right ear, or in center of head.
Without binaural cues brain simply doesn't know where else to position them.

Now and then AKG seem to drop the 712 prices on the rainforest in the UK. Got mine for £165 brand new, picked up a second pair for a colleague at £185 all brand new from Rainforest directly even when the price pads were expensive directly. Would not be surprised to see 712 prices drop slightly from where they are to sub 200 after NYE.
 
If in the future you want to start running higher end cans, it might be worth investing in something a bit more powerful. The Schiit stack, the odac e.t.c Likewise you might be better served by a portable Dac/Amp if you want something cheap for on the go.

I never think you should spend more money than you need to, but sometimes it's worth it if it opens up your upgrade path and reduces outlay in the future.

Yes a Stack is tempting, or maybe swapping in a Topping D10 to save a bit - but ultimatley more than I wanted to spend. I think a e10K might have to be the quick fix so I can get the headphones now.

Now and then AKG seem to drop the 712 prices on the rainforest in the UK. Got mine for £165 brand new, picked up a second pair for a colleague at £185 all brand new from Rainforest directly even when the price pads were expensive directly. Would not be surprised to see 712 prices drop slightly from where they are to sub 200 after NYE.

Yes this is what I was hoping, looking at the 3xcamels it does happen sometimes :)
 
The headphones are the most important. If you can't afford something like a Creative E5/G6 as well, then you can always get one at a later date, if you want to make use of surround sound positional effect stuff.

E10K is good budget DAC/amp, even if it ends up just being a stop gap until something else can be afforded. Will drive the AKG's fine. Sure there is no surround sound effect thing like you'd get from the Creative devices, but the E10K will at least get you away from onboard audio. It's certainly a better option than the Fulla 2, especially if you are going to consider something else in the future, as it's half the cost. The Fulla 2 is not that much better that it's worth costing twice as much.

A SMSL SD793II might even drive the AKG's, but I'm not sure, as it does have less power than the E10K. It is a bit cheaper though and it is SPDIF input only.

Some games do have surround sound positional effects stuff built in, so depending on what games you play that do have that, you can get benefit without having to have a sound card to do it.
 
The headphones are the most important. If you can't afford something like a Creative E5/G6 as well, then you can always get one at a later date

E10K is good budget DAC/amp, even if it ends up just being a stop gap until something else can be afforded. Will drive the AKG's fine. Sure there is no surround sound effect thing like you'd get from the Creative devices, but the E10K will at least get you away from onboard audio.
Sound Blaster E5's usual price is really unnecessary costly, unless needing that battery operation.

Creative's software set would actually work with any sound device.
http://software.store.creative.com/p/software

Though that starts landing total same as Creative cards with 5 Vrms level output double that of Fiio's "Vp-p" shenanigan.


Actually smartphone could well be enough for testing binaural game sound recordings with K702.
Sony Z3 Compact certainly drives K702 well.
 
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