Scientology fights back... Murder?

Booner!

Booner!

Booner!

Soldato
Joined
29 Sep 2005
Posts
9,128
http://www.sptimes.com/2008/02/19/Northpinellas/Scourge_of_Scientolog.shtml

Think of it what you will...but seem too convenient that a freedom fighter against Scientology in the most prominent area (clearwater) of their preaching "suicides" at the same time that people join his cause and make it a global war on the religion. Seems a bit too fishy to me, but they will never be found guilty due to their lawyers etc

*Grabs tin foil hat*

/insert "ITS A CONSPIRACY" image here



Digg

http://digg.com/people/Scourge_of_cien_ology_Dies_in_Apparent_Suicide
 
Mr%20Bump.jpg


Somebody has to be interested in this story?
 
I am. But... well it's hard to take any side. I don't know the facts, which if I do I don't know if I will believe them.
 
It is an interesting enough story but without the Scientology slant it reads as a fairly tragic suicide with possibly a few other reasons aside from his emnity with Scientologists - maybe being a self-confessed loner became too much, maybe he wasn't happy stacking shelves, maybe....

It is all just conjecture and probably always will be unfortunately. From the very limited information contained within the story there is nothing that any court would entertain as a basis for a case, nevermind that an even halfway decent lawyer would rip it to shreds and the lawyers for Scientology are rather more than merely competent.
 
Not a chance it will ever be proven for reasons stated by semi-pro.

If i were to do judge I would say it was a/some scientologists whether ordered to or not by the church.
 
Anyone got plans to protest on March 15th ?

It should be huge this time, more people are aware of it, and also people who were a bit sceptical first time round are joining in
 
tang0 said:
Anyone got plans to protest on March 15th ?

It should be huge this time, more people are aware of it, and also people who were a bit sceptical first time round are joining in
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Birthday so plan to be in a depression and drunk. So prob best I don't go lol.
 
Hmm... I doubt it's Scientology, simply because I don't think this is the easiest and most convincing way to kill someone and make it look like suicide. Unless he was drugged then he surely would have smelled the exhaust fumes and just ran out of the house before passing out, and if someone did break into his house and drug him there'd be some evidence of a struggle and the drug or poison would show up in the post mortem.
Nevertheless, this has made me nervous and slightly scared for the sake of everyone who protested and especially Scientology's other public, high-profile critics like Mark Bunker, and if I do protest on March 15 I'm DEFINITELY keeping my face covered!
 
so a guy, a loner, who his landlord and boss thought was completely bonkers, spends months filming BUILDINGS and people WALKING, then airs it on what is most likely public access cable, where basically complete nutters rant about something for free for a half hour slot on cable tv no one watches except to laugh at. he commits suicide and it must be scientologists?

as for the next protest, did you not notice it was mostly students, with nowt better to do that went. nothing really happened, some mad scientologists said some stupid stuff, completely pointless. all the support of people honking when they saw them. on the way to a football game random people will honk if you ask them to, nothing more than that.

Scientology isn't being recognised as a religion by some countries, but it is, no less ridiculous than the rest of the religions. i love the only real point i saw in the youtube vids, scientology costs, religion doesn't............ how whats one of the richest and most powerful organisations on earth? thats right the catholic church.

I find scientology beyond ridiculous, its only slightly more ridiculous to me than christianity or anything else, and thats purely because i grew up knowing of it, never following it. old idea's are more acceptable, simple as that. If you can protest scientologists, you should be able to do the same to christian churches. i find the hypocrisy just a little sickening. frankly i think you'd be an illogical twit to believe in any religion, but i completely recognise the right of people to believe in what they want to freely. If people want to believe in scientology , who the hell are you to say they can't? its completely no worse than picketing a mosque or church, which would land you in a crap load of trouble.

people are sickeningly stupid. IT might not be the same society as 2000 years ago. but when new religions emerged over the past 2 millenia, you know what happens, they are completely and utterly oppressed, leading to fighting, leading to killings leading to wars then finally the semi acceptance that they have a right to be a religion. I hoped the world was different these days.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
so a guy, a loner, who his landlord and boss thought was completely bonkers, spends months filming BUILDINGS and people WALKING, then airs it on what is most likely public access cable, where basically complete nutters rant about something for free for a half hour slot on cable tv no one watches except to laugh at. he commits suicide and it must be scientologists?
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Have you read the replies? Nobody has said it has to be the Scientologists, quite the opposite in fact for the most part. The article was just reporting the facts, nothing more.

As for the protests... they aren't against the beliefs the people carry they are against the actions the 'church' often takes against current members, former members and anybody that opposes them.
 
yes, because most other religions now and even more so in the past treat all their members fairly, justly and fantastically. JW's are well known for turning on people and really make things bad for people who leave. family members ignoring other family who leave. Churchs, they've never done anything.

as for the thread, the first post was nothing but trying to suggest that "maybe" there was a connection.

Peoples beliefs ARE the beliefs of the church if people want to choose to follow it, and the rules, and accept how they might be treated thats THERE choice and the protests ARE against their beliefs, people are completely blinded to the reality.

When people protest, even not on purpose it IS a threatening act. you think an average person going into his local scientology place doesn't feel threatened and intimidated by a group of 5 of 555 people all telling him the place is bad, he's stupid and wrong to be there and so on? what if just one guy reacts and pushes a protester, he trips and falls in the road. this is how stuff gets started and protests go bad. the best intentioned protests in the world can easily turn not so nice. Ghandi, MLK all led peaceful protests and were great men, yet protests turned bad. you think a group of students, maybe drunk students are the best group to be protesting. not just here, but worldwide. its insane that people think this is ok. its being passed off as another random funny internet based event like the pillow fight or something is, you might not be taking it seriously, i doubt 99.9% of people turning up even give a crap, but the people you are protesting ARE taking it seriously.

Recognised as a religion or not, it is a small group of people, a group who WILL feel oppressed, you ARE oppressing them. how people just can't see this i don't know. Oppressing any minority is flat out ridiculous. can ANYONE name a time and place where protesting against a minority RELIGIOUS group has ever led to anything remotely good? can anyone name when its turned out horrifically badly.

Every religion, every group on earth has nutters. it only takes one complete nutter to decide he can't stand people protesting and to turn up with a weapon and do something stupid. it happens without any protesting, nutters turn up and shoot up schools. This is just giving them an excuse.

This is what people did, organised protests of people who decide they don't like a group, people protest against schools that allowed black people in, against gay clubs, against, anything, it never turned out well, in history. not only aren't we learning, we think its perfectly alright as a society to decide this group is worse than others so its fine to protest against them? Why aren't people protesting against the i dunno, sudanese embassy(if there is one) or another embassy of a country commiting acts of genocide? The very act of protesting is harbouring hate, you are entertaining the idea for more people to simply hate one group and think its fine, and for them to hate everyone whose not a scientologist.
 
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Where did I or anybody else claim that other religions have never done anything wrong? I think it should be just as legal protest those religions if you so choose however most protests will get you nowhere simply because they are so well established.

Their beliefs are fine, Xenu the evil overlord etc. it doesn't matter. But when their actions start affecting the lives and rights of other people (both ex members and people who disagree with them) in a negative way they have gone too far. They have a right to opinions and to voice said opinions in an official manner; such as the sanctioned protests.

The original post was possibly suggesting it, although more than likely they were playing devil's advocate or simply joking.
 
sorry but again other religions screw around with ex members and people that disagree with them, its not a valid reason to protest them.

People get themselves into debt and problems we don't have a (huge :p ) go at banks and people that let them get to that state. i'm sorry but its personal choice to go into one of their buildings, its their choice to believe and join in, they pretty much know the issues going in, its their own fault and frankly as i said, i couldn't give a monkeys if someone gets into trouble with them after leaving, don't join in the first place. The actions of the church have effected those around them for millenia, we've been in wars based over religion where many people died who shouldn't of. THe crusades masacred people over religion. We always look past other religions failures and focus on the "weaker" ones which is even more wrong. praying on the weaker less established institution to me seems worse than protesting catholic churchs who steal from the poor, and keep it all for their own damn selves. they are trillionaires yet ask the poorest people to pay to build churches, its criminal.

fine i guess i'd have less of an issue if we protested against all religions, we don't, so picking on one is very harsh and we seem to be coming up with dozens of reasons why its ok.

as for getting nowhere, supposedly in the past 20 years or so people that claim to be religious or follow christianity(forget which ) was down from 74% or something to 53%, and only 7% actually went to church anymore. Its fair to say that science and proof of evolution and education seems to be a "protest" against religion in and of itself and is obviously incredibly effective ;)

at the moment we have archbishops, and many religious leaders who worldwide push pro religious agenda's into politics, which is no doubt how Scientology isn't recognised as a religion in some places. THe catholic church has HUGE power to affect political agenda's, from campaigning for political leaders that are pro life, or to teach absintance in school instead of safe sex. these guys have a huge effect on EVERYONE world wide in their own ways, way more so than anything scientoligists are doing to a miniscule number of people who mostly, brought it on themselves. I'm sure there are cases where "worse" scientologists have been incredible bad to some people, but i dunno, kiddie fiddling priests to holy wars? all evens out doesn't it?
 
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drunkenmaster said:
sorry but again other religions screw around with ex members and people that disagree with them, its not a valid reason to protest them.
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Lots of people believe it is, just because other Religions do it doesn't make it right.

drunkenmaster said:
People get themselves into debt and problems we don't have a (huge :p ) go at banks and people that let them get to that state. i'm sorry but its personal choice to go into one of their buildings, its their choice to believe and join in, they pretty much know the issues going in, its their own fault and frankly as i said, i couldn't give a monkeys if someone gets into trouble with them after leaving, don't join in the first place. The actions of the church have effected those around them for millenia, we've been in wars based over religion where many people died who shouldn't of. THe crusades masacred people over religion. We always look past other religions failures and focus on the "weaker" ones which is even more wrong. praying on the weaker less established institution to me seems worse than protesting catholic churchs who steal from the poor, and keep it all for their own damn selves. they are trillionaires yet ask the poorest people to pay to build churches, its criminal.
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People that take out loans know exactly what they're getting into, a lot of people that join the Church of Scientology do not (and subsequently leave/try to leave).
The whole point of the protests is to raise awareness of their actions and prevent people from potentially ruining their lives.

drunkenmaster said:
fine i guess i'd have less of an issue if we protested against all religions, we don't, so picking on one is very harsh and we seem to be coming up with dozens of reasons why its ok.
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So you support protesting religions but not Scientology? Like I said, even if people did protest them in the same manner they're so well known about it would probably not make any difference at all.
Also, unlike Scientology the numbers of people attending organised religions are dropping anyway (like you said).

drunkenmaster said:
as for getting nowhere, supposedly in the past 20 years or so people that claim to be religious or follow christianity(forget which ) was down from 74% or something to 53%, and only 7% actually went to church anymore. Its fair to say that science and proof of evolution and education seems to be a "protest" against religion in and of itself and is obviously incredibly effective ;)
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See above, it may be for mainstream organised religions but it doesn't seem to be working for Scientology.



drunkenmaster said:
at the moment we have archbishops, and many religious leaders who worldwide push pro religious agenda's into politics, which is no doubt how Scientology isn't recognised as a religion in some places. THe catholic church has HUGE power to affect political agenda's, from campaigning for political leaders that are pro life, or to teach absintance in school instead of safe sex. these guys have a huge effect on EVERYONE world wide in their own ways, way more so than anything scientoligists are doing to a miniscule number of people who mostly, brought it on themselves. I'm sure there are cases where "worse" scientologists have been incredible bad to some people, but i dunno, kiddie fiddling priests to holy wars? all evens out doesn't it?
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Again, the actions of another party does not make those of Scientology and some of its members any better. It isn't a credible argument against protesting Scientology.
 
@drunkenmaster:
The difference between Scientology and other religions is that Scientology masquerades as a scientifically-valid psychiatric treatment of people's mental problems. It's quite common practice for recruitment centres to be given names that don't reveal their affiliation with Scientology, and for people to not be told what they're really getting into until well after they've paid for the first few courses. Every other religion I know is a. upfront about their beliefs and b. doesn't ask for money before they can catechise you. Scientology is run as a scam, and the way they treat their critics is reminiscent of thuggery and organised crime. Rather than ranting that they're doing nothing that other religions haven't done, why don't you read up on the SPECIFIC things they've done? I suggest xenu.net as a starting point.
 
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