Scottish Inderef Mk2 - lets have a civilized discussion folks.

Kaladon

Kaladon

Kaladon

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So.... here we are again and as such, lets keep this civil cos news of the Indyref2 was out for a little more than 4 hours. Already I'd had folks on my facebook feed from England saying "They can **** off we don't need them" "******* bunch of scroungers" and "We didn't need them in WW2, we don't need them now"

These people have already been removed from my "friends" list, even if they have illustrated somewhat why we want out of this decrepit union with a government hat has those exact attitudes dressed up in pretty words. While I have no issues with someone disagreeing if Independence is a good idea or not, name calling a whole nation for wanting a voice in their own affairs is just not on.

With that all said, lets crack on. Three years after the no vote in 2014 and shipbuilding contacts in scotland have gone, pensions are screwed, leaving the EU, renewing trident, cuts in real term funds, Theresa May, English votes for English laws, no federalism, horrendous welfare 'reform', attempts by the UK to push fracking in Scotland, a special relationship with Donald Trump, attempts to block protection for EU citizens, wanting out of the human rights act, cuts to renewable funding, cuts to BBC Alba, the official UK parliament opposition just abstaining to everything rather than voting against, the mental whisky tax that just happened! that's just off the top of my head.

I realize this is going to be a slightly touchy topic, but lets not be dicks to each other shall we?
 
I don't think Nationalism in of itself is wrong and I especially don't subscribe to the Mayor of London's opinion that somehow automatically makes me a racist. Also come on, a large amount of the no campaign was by promices that have all turned out to be lies. You don't think we have the right to ask again "why the hell do we want to stay in this?"
 
Mynight said:
I predict this thread will be moved to speakers corner.

Clearly I've been living under a rock I didn't realise it was that time again.
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Oh I didn't realize, I saw General discussion and went "Ah that will do!"

My bad mods if that's the case.


yer_averagejoe said:
Good start :rolleyes:
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I didn't wanna point it out, but aye :(


yer_averagejoe said:
I'm immediately worried that a sense of apathy will lead to a low turnout and skew the result from whatever the right result would be, but welcome to politics.
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Yeah me too, however one way or another indyref2014 did get an unprecedented amount of folk out to vote. If we can do that again then yes or no something good has happened with that level of engagement!
 
Actually you know what? **** this. I was hoping for a civil discussion and yet theirs so many..... urrgh no I wont be dragged down by the folk just slinging out insults :/ You wonder why we wanna go? its this **** right here all prettied up and housed in Westminster.

Macro said:
Given the OPs record so far of lighting blue touch paper and then contributing nothing other than pictures of things others have said I suspect we'll quickly be back were we were last time with the same poster just pasting RSS Wings over Scotland screen snips and cartoons.
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im not allowed to walk away from my pc and go to work? I;ve to stay here and just be the 24/7 keyboard warrior you must be. Christ you must work for the Daily Mail.

Urrrgh can a mod now lock this **** show but keep it up as a shining example of what to expect when you would like a little discussion?
 
Macro said:
I like you, you're funny - let us know if you find your dummy again and can string a sentence together without having a temper tantrum because not everyone agrees with your divisive Nationalist propaganda.
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I tried to start and wanted to keep a civil discussion. You started by just being insulting
Macro said:
Nationalists in "we're going to keep asking you this question until you get the answer right you idiots" shocker... :rolleyes:
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Just a little background. I never started off supporting the SNP. In fact until probably about 2015 i wouldn't give them the time of day (my own personal experiences with Alex Salmond not withstanding smug git that he is. Where as my cousin went to Uni with Sturgeon. Apparently she was known as "no Mates Nicola" back then) Having been involved in local politics in Glasgow and involved with "Young Labour" while Maria Fyfe was MP for Maryhill and with her involved in the "50-50 \ Yes-Yes campaign" to get a devolved parliament in the first place. I didn't feel Independence was necessary then. I also felt that after several centuries of what I believed to be a symbiotic relationship, that leaving the UK had to many unanswered questions

2010 I was not a independence supporter because of those concerns, even though I felt the union had gone from symbiotic to parasitic, the final straw was David Cameron's government and the realization that all of Scotland could have voted one way and greater london alone can nullify our voice. That was just too much, without a change in the voting system to let the nations in the union where the lower population nations can be heard, then why the **** would we want to stay? EVEL made that even worse. We cant vote re something in England but you can still vote to effect change in Scotland? How is this a fair and representative system?

Hell even if Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all voted one way (approx 10.3M) we are drowned out by an increasingly xenophobic England (approx 54.8m). and your surprised there's a proportion of our population that want out?
 
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Macro said:
And there's that typical Nationalist waffle trying to paint this as the evil English oppressing everyone else in the Union (which is Ironic given your use of "Xenophobic"). 38% of Scots voted for Brexit too or do they not count or are they slightly misguided and easily led Xenophobes? Actually don't worry, I suspect I know your answer to that.
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your country has had a 41% increase in hate crimes since the Brexit vote because all of a sudden these nutters think its ok. Media outlets trashing anyone who wants to stand up for EU nationals with established lifes anywhere in the UK and lets not even go near the refugee situation. My own partner (French) is that concerned such attitudes will spread north of the boarder and we shuld bugger off to Canada.

You don't think England is getting worse?

When it comes down to it 5% isn't the decisive vote unionists seem to think its. and post election analysis showed a good number of no voters where swayed by 2 factors. "the pledge" for all the joke that was and staying in the EU. Thats been proven to be nothing but a lie. You dont think 6% can be found in that?

As for the votes at home, Yeah your right. 38% did vote to leave. That's absolutely fine and they are entitled to that opinion. Frankly it would be boring if we all agreed! but your saying the 62% that voted to stay in Scotland and the 62% In Ireland should be ignored? Your saying they are slightly misguided and easily led europhiles? Actually don't worry, I suspect I know your answer to that.
 
Vidar said:
Without checking the link, I think someone has posted a reference to the fact that Scotland wouldn't be fast tracked back into the EU. I think what really needs to happen before any referendum is called is for all the facts to be on the table. A commitment from the EU as to whether Scotland could rejoin, if so, when and a real look at finances but alas I think the nationalist agenda which is rightly angry at Westminster will play against fears founded or otherwise to give weight to their arguments validity.

I really hope that Scotland remains!
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Honestly im not prepared to say that fast track is or isnt an option. Too many conflicting statments by EU officials, how the the country most linky to oppose it (spain due the the Castillian situation) had had its ruling party's MSP say they wont veto it.
 
abbviper said:
If there is another referendum and individual regions/islands vote to remain part of Great Britain, will those islands/regoins be allowed to remain? After all if they vote no, why should be forced kicking an screaming out of GB?
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your just saying that because you want "Sealand" back :P

(i am of course joking)
 
Oh and for the record, the only actual England hating you will ever see from me is at the rugby (and thats just for fun)...... Especially after this weekend, Jebus **** that hurt!!!!!
 
dowie said:
Maybe the UK should sort out a proper federal system like Canada, Australia etc.. then this would be less likely to be an issue. UK stays together but the constituent parts get more control over domestic issues etc..
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Id be kinda fine with this, but would want it bound by law before surrendering the issue. Not after the lies and promises from last go round.
 
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