Second Hand Car Intermittent Fault (Sale of Goods)

div0 · 21 Jun 2013 at 15:42

Looking for a bit of advice.

Bought a second hand car (58 plate, Focus) from a major dealership at the end of February.

Opted out of their 'extended' warranty, due to previous bad experience with warranties not being worth the paper they're written on.

So the standard 'warranty' expired after either 28 days, or 2 months (I forget which, but it's pretty much irrelevant).

Jump forward to owning the car nearly 3 months. The car begins to intermittently display an 'Engine Malfunction' warning and go into a 'limp home mode'. Turning the engine off/on would then clear the issue, at least for a while.

As soon as the problem occurred, I contacted the dealer and booked it in for them to look at. They were unable to reproduce the problem and couldn't identify any fault codes.

After driving the car home, with no problem and then another 3-4 weeks without any issue, the problem resurfaced. Again contacted the original dealership and their advice was for me to book it into one of their Ford branches.

The Ford dealership was able to identify two engine codes relating to a faulty Throttle Body and possible ECU fault. Their advice was to replace the Throttle Body and then see if that cleared both faults. Total expected cost £500-£1500 depending on whether ECU would also need replaced.

Went back to the original dealership and said that I felt that this sort of issue (within 3 months of ownership) fell well below the standard I would expect for a 5-year old car from a major dealership. The sales guy was very apologetic and offered to look into it, but would need any costs to be approved from his boss (who wasn't in).

Just had a call from the 'boss' offering to cover £150 towards the costs.

I said that I wasn't happy with that and would now consider my other options.

So basically looking at writing to Trading Standards, or Citizens Advice over the weekend. As I believe that this sort of fault should be covered by the 'Sale of Goods Act'.

Second hand car from a dealer
When you buy a second hand car from a dealer, you have the right, under the Sale of Goods Act, to expect the car to:
be of satisfactory quality (taking into account its age and mileage)
meet any description given to you when you were buying it ( whether in the advert or in discussions prior to sale)
be fit for the purpose (for example, to get you from A to B safely).
If the second hand car does not meet these requirements, you have a right to claim against the dealer for breach of contract.
If something you buy is not 'as described', or if the seller is guilty of misrepresentation, you are entitled to:
give the second hand car back and get your money back, or
if you want to keep the car, ask for compensation (usually the cost of any repairs it needs)
But, if you buy a second hand car that was not described as being in excellent condition or good working order, and it breaks soon after you buy it, you don't have any right to reject it, or to claim compensation.

during the first six months:

The consumer returns the goods in the first six months from the date of sale and requests a repair or replacement or a partial refund. In that case, the consumer does not have to prove the goods were faulty at the time of sale. It is assumed that they were. If the retailer does not agree, it is for the retailer to prove that the goods were satisfactory at the time of sale. This comes from Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002, derived from EU Directive 1999/44/EU which became Clauses 48A to 48F inclusive of the Sale of Goods act in April 2003

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem/

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/consumer-rights/

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf

As a last resort, I also may have an avenue through my Credit Card company, as that was how I paid.

Second hand car bought on credit card
If you bought the car on credit, you can also claim against the credit company under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act.
Those with debit cards may be able to claim on the chargeback scheme. If you have purchased the car on hire purchase you can reject the car through the finance company as long as it meets the criteria above.

Anyone got any similar experience, or general advice?

Imy · 21 Jun 2013 at 15:57

It seems you've already done the relevant research.

I once put a claim in via my credit card company for a PC component that was faulty and they were able to strong-arm the retailer on my behalf to improve their offer to me (by 700%) when I couldn't get them to budge myself.

I would switch to doing all further communication in writing from now on.

div0 · 21 Jun 2013 at 16:10

Definitely plan on putting everything in writing now.

First letter will outline all details to date, probably to Trading Standards and if necessary copied (recorded delivery) to the dealer.

Need to look into the details of who to contact, in what order and with what information, but hopefully get that all sorted over the weekend.

jamoor · 21 Jun 2013 at 17:17

1) What the mileage?
2) these things can be repaired, google ecutesting.

Fuzz · 21 Jun 2013 at 19:35

Have you tried an independent garage with a good electrician?
Chances are it's FA to do with the ECU and the codes are sending the Monkeys at the dealership down the garden path.
AT least from that perspective you know what you "could" get it repaired for if you had to (no dealership added tax) and then use that information to go forward with the dealership if you insisted on it being "fit for purpose" or whatever..

At the end of the day cars do go wrong and not a monkey in the land could pre-empt the failure, so I'd save yourself the hassle and just get the dam thing fixed, then have a whinge at the dealer and try and get some money back afterwards.

Why don't you try a specialist diagnostics garage to hone in on the issue.
Plenty in Edinburgh it seems
Here's two by the looks of it.
http://fairdealautos.com/services-2/diagnostics/
http://www.greenend-motors.co.uk/vehicle-diagnostics

Showboat · 21 Jun 2013 at 19:41

Good luck getting anything. You were past the warranty and its 5 year old. That return of faulty goods link is surely only for new goods. Otherwise any second hand car bought from a dealer has a six month warranty!!!!

scratch · 21 Jun 2013 at 20:03

Showboat said:
Good luck getting anything. You were past the warranty and its 5 year old. That return of faulty goods link is surely only for new goods. Otherwise any second hand car bought from a dealer has a six month warranty!!!!

No it's for used items. You get 12 months warranty as standard on new items.

So many people don't realise the rights they have under the Sale of Goods Act, which is why so many companies try it on when people bring back faulty goods within the 6 months. Make sure you read up on it as you might need to use it one day.

Third Opinion · 22 Jun 2013 at 09:33

Always get suspicious when I hear dealers say 'possible ECU failure'.

Quite often when the fault is located it is a sensor or something. I always feel ecu is more of a cop out because they are not sure.

I have known 2 people who have had expensive ecu replacements which cured nothing.