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Section 75 Claims - New Cars

Discussion in 'Motors' started by kaktus, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,141

    Gents,

    I have been having a bit of a nightmare with Citroen for the past 18 months and feel like I have no choice left but to go down a Section 75 route. Have any of you gone down this route before with respect to car purchases? How likely is it I will be able to obtain a full refund for the purchase price of the car?

    Back story:
    -Bought a new C4 Cactus in June 2017
    -had some issues, paintwork, wrong handles, suspension
    -bought it through carwow from a dealer in Bolton, been having it worked on in Citroen North London
    -18 months on, suspension issue remains (rusty squeak every time the car goes over any uneven surface, horrible grinding noise on motorway). It makes driving intolerable in the car
    -Official final response from Citroen North London this evening was and I quote "we've tried everything we can. We are of the opinion this is a design characteristic of the vehicle. If you want to reject the car you have to take this up with the Selling dealership".

    Apart from the obvious, which is, it can't be a design characteristic for the car to sound like a rusty spike every time it goes over any bump or sound like someone is grinding a stone when traveling at high speed. If it was, why would you have admitted it for warranty work more than 20 times in 1 year? The response is ludicrous.

    Equally ludicrous, the dealership in Bolt now want to have their chance to look at the car. Their initial response was, we don't remember selling you the car (yes, really), then "well why don't Citroen N.London refund it for you", then "well you need to send it back to Bolton so we can try to fix the problem". As if 25+ attempts by Citroen in North London wasn't enough...

    Basically I've had enough and spoke with a Lawyer who said to me since I paid for the initial deposit on Credit Card just raise a Section 75 dispute and be done with it. Is it really this simple? Will I get a refund for an issue like this which doesn't stop the car from being able to be driven but makes you detest driving it in the first place? I mean, it's a brand new car for flips sake, shouldn't have to put up with this


    ----
    edit: click this link to see what I mean about the squeak. It sounds like this every time the car goes over any uneven surface or bump, and as loud inside the car as it is outside the car

    https://uploadfiles.io/lnjxa
     
  2. jpaul

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,422

  3. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,141

    I am not entirely sure, but I know they claimed to have replaced the axle, the damper mountings, the bushes, the suspension coils, basically everything over the last 18 months. The last time I went in there, the master tech claimed the issue was to do with the handbrake, he did something to it and the noise was gone temporarily. 30 minutes of driving later and the noise was back again. Gets progressively worse.

    Honestly at this point I'm just done with the car and with Citroen. Entirely sick of this company. The OP was a really shortened version - you would not believe some of the things they have done during this period of time including being caught red handed in lies, car sitting for 5-6 weeks no one working on it etc
     
  4. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,227

    Location: London

    Bit unfair to tell the Bolton branch to provide a refund without even giving them a chance to look at the vehicle.

    I don't get why you spent 25+ attempts with someone who was just racking up the warranty income for attempting 25+ repairs, rather than going to the seller. Remember they didn't sell you the car and obviously wouldn't provide any refund.

    Section 75 claims also aren't magic and they could ask you to send the car to the Bolton branch anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  5. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,141

    I was following exactly what Citroen instructed me to do which was to take the vehicle to my nearest official Citroen dealership and have them rectify the car under warranty...not sure why that would need to involve the selling dealership at any point in the chain. By the way, this was offered at the first sign of the issue and they rejected because of the cost they would have incurred in having the vehicle picked up and sent back to Bolton. They instead at the time (when the car was delivered) confirmed they would rather let me nearest dealership deal with the problem as it was under warranty anyway. The work and the authorisation for the work comes from the Manufacturer, not the dealership. I do not see at all how this is "unfair" to the Bolton branch?
     
  6. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,227

    Location: London

    I know warranty work is authorised and paid for by the manufacturer which was my point. The N London branch I'm sure was more than happy to take on that work.

    However, you must have known very early on that the path it was going down was going to be the rejection of the vehicle. This moved from a simple warranty repair to something far more serious. Unless you plan on getting the manufacturer to provide you a refund, there is zero chance I reckon the selling branch will do it without even looking at the vehicle, they were simply hoping it would be repaired and they wouldn't have to worry about it. I don't see how you can reject that request.
     
  7. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,340

    Location: England

    The best you’ll get is market rate for your car. I can’t see any dealer giving you more.
     
  8. Diagro

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 3, 2012

    Posts: 8,369

    You need to let them see it.

    If they refuse to fix or cannot fix then do your section 75.

    If they can fix it. Great. Ask for some sort of compensation for your time and stress.
     
  9. tek2k

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 5, 2003

    Posts: 156

    By this rationale, if you buy an iphone in Southampton and take it back home to Manchester and find it has issues and then take it to an apple shop in Manchester and they faff around 10 times trying to fix it, your position would be that you should have taken it back to the store you bought it from in Southampton? Nonsense, you get your nearest authorised retailer to replace or repair just like any other national or international brand.

    He bought a new car that had issues, he took it to an authorised franchisee of the manufacturer and went through the official process of trying to rectify the issue and by the sound they've messed him around for more than a year. It would have made zero sense to have the car sent back from London to Bolton when the only thing the selling dealer would have done would have been the same process as the dealer he took it to in London which by the sound of it did **** all. How idiotic would it be to keep sending the car back and forth between London and Bolton not to mention the cost of transport? This is reason the car manufacturers have more than one dealership in the country.

    I don't think this will come down to a dealer refund though. If he is going through s75 it will be the bank/card provider that has to pay up. I did a quick google on this and found this article and this chap got a full refund , plus compensation plus return of interest for just some paint issues. OP sounds like he has a stronger case even. https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/n...r-section-75-after-i-paid-300-on-credit-card/
     
  10. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,227

    Location: London

    @tek2k

    No that is not the same. The car industry does not work like that. Franchised dealers (which nearly all are) are not owned by the manufacturer. Whilst Apple owns all Apple stores.

    If the N London dealer gave the refund. They would literally be out of pocket. The Bolton dealer got the money for the sale.

    It's more like asking Apple to provide a refund for an iPhone bought at Carphonewarehouse. No, to do that you go to Carphonewarehouse and they would be within their rights to ask to see the phone first, even if Apple say it is broken. In the case of Apple as the manufacturer they tend to replace phones (saving you the hassle of going through the retailer), however in the case of the OP, the N London dealer is not the manufacturer.

    I just can't fathom why you'd wait 18 months and 25+ repair visits to a third party before demanding the original seller of the vehicle do something about it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
  11. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 5,908

    Location: Bromsgrove

    Open the S75 claim right away, their investigation will take weeks.

    Ultimately the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality and arguably unfit for purpose, I wouldnt be entertaining a repair at all at this point and straight up demanding a refund in full.
     
  12. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,340

    Location: England

    How long in the 18 months you had the car has it been off the road?
     
  13. Gaygle

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 7, 2004

    Posts: 14,805

    Location: East of England

    From watching that video, I'm astounded they haven't been able to get to the bottom of this. An entirely replicable problem, on the suspension, shouldn't be this hard to figure out!

    I'm no mechanic, but if I was, the first thing I'd suggest is getting the apprentice under there to pinpoint the source of the noise whilst someone bounces on the car?
     
  14. jpaul

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 6,422

    Does the Bolton garage already/electronically have access to details of these warranty visits, to evaluate the issue ?
    Clock/fix-attempts may only start when you called&visit the Bolton garage , did lawyer already comment.

    Guess you demanded a loaner during visits, but, nonetheless, I have seen folks calculate time/petrol they have spent with visits.
     
  15. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,340

    Location: England

    The fact you have left it so long is your issue.
     
  16. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,141

    They do. But they want to try to fix it themselves - which basically means I have to pay £300 to get the car shipped up there. £300 to get it shipped back and 100% guarantee when it comes back nothing will have been fixed. Utterly unacceptable when they have access to the dozens of service reports that show the car has been brought in to an authorized dealer for the same job (At Bolton Dealer's request initially), all the work that has been done on it and the problem still persists, along with written final response from the authorised dealer saying we are of the opinion that it is a design defect. I don't see any reason for Bolton branch to have a go unless they want to do it at their expense, which they won't.

    I'd estimate the car has been in the workshop for a combined total of about 4 months off the road.

    Imagine having to show up at their service centre and go for a drive with their technician (the same two every time) and demonstrate the problem every single time. We've been under, over, on the side of the car on all angles to pinpoint the noise. The master tech there (who I now have on my whatsapp since we have been in so much communication) said straight up 'I have absolutely no idea what causes this issue but I know it is a common issue on citroen's and peugeots but you can't quote me on this"
     
  17. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,141

    Except I contacted Ctiroen UK Managing Director, Citroen UK Customer Care, Bolton Dealership, N.London Dealership and I have followed exactly the instructions given to me, and the rules as laid to me, in the T&C's and the Warranty Guide as required to do so. I have not been sitting idly twiddling my thumbs. I was also advised by the attorney that I should be allowing Citroen to perform exhaustive efforts to rectify the vehicle, which I now have. I do not see at all how I can be even remotely responsible for this situation
     
  18. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,141

    I will be doing that this weekend. I am basically going to write up a cover note to give the chain of events that began with the selling dealership requesting that I take the vehicle to my nearest official citroen dealer to have the issues rectified under warranty. This has been going on for 18 months. Citroen N London claims issues are a design characterisic/flaw/manufacturing defect. Now Bolton want to start the process all over again which is unacceptable and I am not prepared to go through this any longer. I'll attach the 50+ emails and the service reports.
     
  19. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,340

    Location: England

    But you still have the car 18 months after you bought it, you seem to have taken advice from many sources and you are now on a web forum asking for more advice. With respect you have taken far too long, you have been using the car for the 18 months and I am sure added many miles. I am not seeking to argue with you, I am saying had I been in your situation the car would have been back with Citroen well over a year ago. It seems to me you have gone about this terribly and I am trying to tell you no matter what you have been told, you are likely to struggle. I hope you get the result you want, but really stop messing about. Get it back to the supplying dealer and speak with the DP about resolution as all of this advice has not fixed your problem. You have put up with it far too long, you have not pushed hard enough and have been strung along. Accept that, stop with the emails and get it sorted.

    Best advice I can offer.

    Who is the dealer by the way?
     
  20. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,141

    I have not taken advice from many sources. I have had no choice but to contact all the departments of Citroen that I possibly could in an effort to resolve this issue as per the guidelines of the terms of service provided by the manufacturer and its authorised dealers. Contacting an attorney is the only source of advice I have sought outside of dealing with the company directly and this was recently. And the reason for this post was to ask if anyone has gone down the S75 route. You may think this is 'going about this terribly' I beg to differ. You may be operating on information unknown to me but when I have a problem with a product I purchase I talk to the company I purchased it from and follow their procedures. I don't make up procedures as I go along to suit me. But thanks for your advice.