Setting up new Netgear DGND3300 (good choice?) with Linksys WRT54GL?

alexjholland

alexjholland

alexjholland

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8 Oct 2006
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322
Hey,

(Four questions at bottom)

We just ordered a Netgear DGND3300 from OcUK to replace our ageing white Homehub 1.5. The homehub has soldiered on over five years, whilst a black homehub 2.0 failed - but with a new 'N' enabled Dell desktop; poor performance at distance; a growing PC/printer/extender network and the desire for HD video streaming across our network, the time has come to upgrade.

The Netgear will sit in the hallway, where it connects wirelessly to our 'N' desktop upstairs and our 'G' laptops around the house. I'm hoping to see an improvement in range for both 'N' and 'G' devices.

For me, a 15-20 metre long ethernet runs out of the back of the Netgear, under the floorboards and down to my basement conversion bedroom. Once inside, it connects to a Linksys WRT54GL on Tomato - in turn connected to my XBox 360, Macbook and Windows 7 Desktop PC. I have disabled the 54GL's wireless, as the signal from the Homehub is good enough for casual browsing.

This setup works fine with our HomeHub 1.5, but for some reason the Homehub 2.0 just wouldn't work with my 54GL, no matter what advice I tried from this forum.

So tomorrow I am first going to try simply unplugging the Homehub and plugging in the Netgear, with the same cable arrangement. I currently have the homehub connected to the first LAN port on my 54GL, which is the only way it works.

Questions:

- Are there any options I will need to tweak to get the Netgear DGND3300 to work with my connected Linksys WRT54GL tomorrow?

- Can I use the uplink port on my 54GL this time, as I am possibly getting a second XBox 360 and would then like all four LAN ports available!

- Would a basic Linksys 4-port hub I recently found kicking around be more sensible to use than the 54GL (or allow me to use the WAN instead of LAN), bearing in mind I don't use the wireless function on it anyway?

- Did I make a good choice? (Inter-PC movie streaming; good Windows 7 home network; fast torrenting and XBox 360 gaming are the agenda).

Ps. My connection is BT 6 Meg - let me know if you need any more details!

Many Thanks,

Alex
 
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Most people are simply going to look at this then wonder why you're trying to make homehubs work when you could just use the netgear as a modem then flash tomato onto the 54gl and ditch the homehubs (unless you wanted cheap switches) and live with G wifi :P.

Honestly though, the best thing you could do is flash the 54gl with tomato to make it work with everything, although since it only has 10/100 ports you could drop it in favor of this http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=NW-074-EX&groupid=46&catid=1626&subcat= although I'd stress tomato first. Using the wan port as a lan switch however would be difficult, and require more tinker than it's worth imo.

Did you make the right choice? Depends. If you just want something that's cheap, quick to setup and simply works then yes, almost certainly. However if you're the sort of person who like to "tweak" his lan then an rt-n16 with tomato would be a consideration, but that would also require a separate modem, cost more and have a bit of a learning curve.

However without the ability to load custom firmware onto that netgear, I don't believe fast torrenting and xbox go together.
 
I do have Tomato on the WRT54GL - should have mentioned that!

Aside from that, I do wonder what you're talking about. The 54GL firstly has no modem, so I needed one in the hallway as that is where the phone line is (hence home hub) and secondly I need the 54GL in my basement bedroom as I have just the one cable entering it.

The 54GL with Tomato didn't work with the homehub 2.0. This is largely irrelevant, as I will no longer be using homehubs - I just hope it was a problem with the homehub rather than the WRT54GL.

Do you even know which router I'm talking about? It was £110: the top netgear on OcUK - hardly 'cheap'.

Finally, the whole point was that we're streaming hi-def video between computers and we we have N technology on our new PC that we want to tap into. Why would I possibly be interested in G technology in 2010?

Should I ask for some explanation of the assertion that fast torrenting and XBox don't go together?
 
So you're using the Linksys as a switch? Strange how it didn't work with the homehub, I'd have assumed that so long as DHCP is switched off on the Linksys, then it would work just fine with the hub.

A small switch may be the better option, you could use your existing hub but if it's a hub in the true sense of the word, then they're outdated and you'll benefit with a technically superior cheap switch.

The good thing about the DGND3300 is it has a dual radio so you can keep legacy G and N separate (if, for example, you have smart phones with G radios), as from experience having both G and N on the same radio seriously affects N performance.
 
By the way, as far as I'm aware the GL doesn't have an 'uplink port', they're all auto so you can connect to any port (aside from the WAN) without direction configuration.
 
Great response, thanks benftl!

Who knows why it didn't work - the important thing is getting the Netgear working tomorrow.

I think I'm going to go straight to the switch, as it's a tidier and more simple solution. Why do you say a switch is 'technically superior'?

Pleased to hear the dual radio is a good thing. We have mainly G devices, just the new PC and my Macbook that are N (surely we will get more N devices though) so it seems dual radios is a sensible investment.

Finally, I've always been told by my XBox that I have strict NAT settings. Will this new router and switch potentially solve this?

Oh - and there is a dedicated 'uplink' on the 54GL. Whether it is actually just another switch and really I could have used this instead of the LAN ports I can't quite remember. Will try switch anyway though!

Thanks
 
A hub receives data then spits it out to all ports, causing small collisions and occasional slow throughput. A switch is intelligent and negotiates 'direct' links between ports, this link will explain it better : http://www.duxcw.com/faq/network/hubsw.htm

Dual radios are definitely a good idea, I think perhaps people buy single (read: cheap) N routers thinking everything will be fine, when in reality a lot of stuff is still on G and hard/expensive to upgrade (phones, xbox360 adaptors, ps3 wifi etc) and having G / N on the same radio is not a good idea.

Your xbox will have strict NAT if UPNP is off, otherwise you can set up port forwarding on the main router. It isn't a hard problem to solve, but perhaps the WRT54GL still had its firewall on or something (if it's acting as a switch, the firewall shouldn't be on) which limited forwarding. As you say, a small cheap switch would do the job better, there's no setting up / configuring a switch, it's pretty much plug and play to your existing network.

Interesting about the uplink port, I'll have to have a search on that! My old WRT54G v2.2 had basic auto switch ports, I just assumed the whole series followed the same layout.
 
I just went digging and have two wired potential replacements for my WRT54GL:

- Linksys EFAH05W 10/100 5-Port Workgroup Hub
- Sitecom LN-112 V2 5p 10/100mbps Switch

I'd naturally have gone for the Linksys, as it's got five ports (+ an uplink), is a known brand and looks like a cute mini version of the 54gl! The Sitecom is a brand I don't recognise/respect - but it is a switch.

You think this Sitecom Switch will be a better option then? (Assuming both manufacturers know to use the words 'switch' and 'hub' correctly?)

Was tempted to get a cheaper single-band radio, but am glad we forked out for the dual radios now!

I massively appreciate your help - it's great to have someone who really knows their stuff in an area I really don't. This does mean you're my first port of call if I need any help tomorrow though!
 
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To be honest, they're all much of a muchness, though like you I'd prefer to go with a name I recognise / trust. OcUK sell a few different, seemingly quality switches, just go for the cheapest one which satisfies your requirement for the amount of ports. The Linksys hub does look cute, but as you point out, it's a hub, so we'll pass on that one!

In all fairness you should be able to use the WRT54GL as a switch, I'd even suggest flashing with DD-WRT and seeing what happens, but if you've already been through this with the OcUK lot (and they're a clever bunch!) without resolve then we'll leave it at that.

When you're setting up the router tomorrow, make sure UPNP is enabled and then check the xbox for an open NAT. If it's still strict then you can set a manual port forwarding rule, shouldn't be too difficult to get that working!
 
Sorry, I meant I actually have the Linksys mini hub and Sitecom switch sitting in my room now. I got them a few years ago and forgot I had them.

Is it safe to assume the Sitecome will do better - or is there any way of measuring? Broadbandspeedtest.co.uk?

I'm definitely going to replace the WRT54GL with one of these two, as simpler is almost always better to me!
 
The Sitecom will work fine, simply swap the WRT54GL with it and you're done. For performance testing you could do a file transfer over FTP from one PC to another, you should see it peak at around 9.5 / 10MB/sec. I'd just assume it works as intended, switches aren't that complicated really. It will be interesting to see the xbox's NAT status after you swap the router/switch over, though :) We'll get to see if that Linksys was a restriction (and if so, it isn't configured correctly which possibly explains why it didn't work with the HomeHub, etc).
 
Well I've got the Netgear/sitecom switch plugged in. Setup was fairly easy, although having two wireless networks threw me a little. It appears my G laptop can see videos from my N PC - so I still have one overall network.

NAT is now open in my Halo settings! The only slight disappointment is that I appeared to have a weak connection on the ingame interface bar (no noticeable effect though). I am on 6 meg BT, so this surprised me. I will experiment with the sitecom switch/linksys hub this week sometime.

The interface seems a little disappointing. I remember on my Homehub I could see every individual item and select unique services for each one, such as 'XBox 360'. That said, I don't know what more I can expect apart from an open NAT and my games opening.

Overall, it seems good. I need to check various things like printers work from all our different computers in the next few days. Turns out both my sisters' laptops are 'N' too - so the router was an even more sensible purchase than planned.

Thanks for your help so far!
 
Benftl, it appears 5Ghz has appalling range! We cannot pick up the 'N' channel upstairs (10-15 metres and one floor away).

Looks like we will need to have one channel at 2.4 ghz. Unlike some other routers, I do not have the option of running seperate N and G both at 2.4ghz - only one.

Options:
- Up to 145mbps at 2.4Ghz
- Up to 300mbps at 2.4Ghz

What is the difference and which should I choose?

Also, bearing in mind the second radio is now irrelevant in our router, is there still enough in it to justify the £110 price-tag? Is it still good?

I do wish Netgear or OcUK had made the appalling range of 5Ghz clearer..
 
It appears the first is 20mhz and the second is 40 mhz. I am trying 40 as we only pick up one neighbour's homehub, so should be able to hog the entire bandwith to ourselves.
 
alexjholland said:
. Unlike some other routers, I do not have the option of running seperate N and G both at 2.4ghz - only one.
Click to expand...

Are you sure? I just checked the DGND3300 specs and it details the following:

Wireless Configuration

Type 1: Full 2.4 GHZ configuration supporting 802.11n/802.11g/802.11b

Type 2: Duo 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz configuration supporting 802.11n/802.11a (5 GHz) and 802.11g/802.11b (2.4 GHz)
Click to expand...

So it should be possible to run both radios on 2.4GHz. Check your other thread for a more detailed reply.
 
It appears this is my only option. I actually prefer having one channel from a practical point of view, my concern is just that it's a wasted feature having paid for two radios - and I want good performance/range.

The definition of 'performance/range seems' to be N at 2.4Ghz.

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How very odd. I've played with a WRT610n which allowed dual 2.4GHz option, or 5GHz and to be fair it worked well, though there was definite reduction in range at the 5GHz spectrum.

Dunno if you'd be bothered, but perhaps chop that router in for a WRT610n? The Linksys doesn't have an inbuilt modem but you could easily buy a cheap (and decent) DG834PN or similar modem and use in tandem. OcUK sell the WRT610n, it might be worth a go?

The Linksys also is upgradable with DD-WRT firmware, making it extremely configurable.
 
My mum really doesn't like lots of wires, she wasn't even too happy with this in her hallway! I had to wire it neatly to keep her happy!

Having one channel seems to do the job and it's a lot neater with one SSID.
 
You haven't paid for 2 radios, you paid for one dual band radio. Just like the N16 with not tomato support and less features :-/

Use the netgear for your n devices and the 54gl for your g ones. Might find yourself using the tomato one to control the lan too.. Netgear stock firmware has always been limited sadly :(
 
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