Should I bulk/cut/recomp etc?

WhyNow

WhyNow

WhyNow

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Joined
17 Oct 2012
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Hi all,

Copied this in from the gym rat thread as it got lost in there

I'm looking for some general advice on where to take things next with my training:

Background: First stepped into a weights room about 2 years ago, made some decent beginner strength gains but had no real motivation and only really lasted about 4 months before I dropped to a level where i was only going about once a month (if that).

Fast forward to June/July 2012, and I signed up to a good gym close to work and been going at least twice, normally three times a week without fail.

My full body routine is roughly as follows although sometimes I'll mix it up a bit, eg db rows for my pulling exercise, or cable rows etc.

a:
bench, 3x5
deadlift 3x5
db shoulder press 3x8
pullups, as many as possible supplemented with lat pulldown

b:
db flat bench 3x6
squat 3x5
military press 3x5
Chinups (either many as possible or 3x5xweighted)

Currently lifts as follows [6/7 months ago in brackets] (all with good ROM, eq squats to parallel, bar to chest on bench etc)

squat - 102.5kg [75kg]
db chest press - 2x30kg [2x22kg]
bench - 67.5kg [52.5kg]
shoulder press - 50kg [32.5kg]
deadlift - 140kg (w/ straps) [90kg]
db rows - 36kg [2x28kg]
chins - 3x7xbw, or 3x5xbw+5kg [about 3xbw lol]
pullups - 4/5xbw [0]

Pic from just before I started at the beginning of July

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/442/oldpk.jpg/

Pics from this week:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/203/38696155.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/65175590.png/

currently 6ft2, 95kg. BF - no idea.

Progress was a little slow at first as I was messing around with diet. The approach I took was to get 200g protein a day with around maintenance cals, and gradually up the cals until started to gain weight + lifts increased. (I eat the same food everyday, so it was easy to add 200-300 cals at a time)

I feel progress has been mixed. I see differences of course, but I feel I should have been able to achieve more in 6 months. I'm stronger but think I've put on a bit of fat too (or at least my trousers are tighter at the waist). My ultimate goal of course to be big, strong and lean.

In terms of the next 6-12 months, what approach should I take?

Ideally I'd like to get rid of the excess fat I'm carrying asap. I think I'd be happier then and I'd have a lean base to slow bulk on. But I'm not sure if a cut would be ideal at present.

I think my routine is probably okay as I'd still class myself as beginner/beginner-intermediate, but the diet will be what determines the changes. Ultimately, should I be looking to...bulk/cut/recomp/something radical(keto)/continue as present/something else??

thanks for any pointers
 
I was pretty much in the same predicament as you at the start of the year but i've decided to cut first, get to a point that i'm happy with how I look then slowly add calories/lean mass.

I'm roughly 80kg eating just over 2000 calories a day split into 200g protein, 170g carbs and 60g fats.

I've gone down the route of higher reps at a lower weight often sets of 20/15/12/10/8 and 4/5 exercises per body part with an added 30 min cardio. Saying that though... i tend to go 5 times a week so it probably won't be suitable for you.

I don't expect to gain any strength whilst doing this but will hopefully maintain what i have then have a good base to lean bulk off.
 
I'm going to give you an off-the-cuff remark, so consider yourself warned...

Your diet is probably full of **** and is therefore cancelling out most of your efforts.

Please post your diet over the course of a week and be honest - we can tell. :D

The routine is a reasonable base for 'strength' (in terms of the type of exercises), but I would up the reps to the 8-10 zone (3*8 or whatever) for each set, even if this means dropping the weight overall.

You're also not doing any core work, which will limit you, too. Do some. Planks, side planks, barbell roll-outs, body saws, etc.

These are just some basics which you appear to be missing. And the diet is what will be hampering you overall.
 
Ok thanks, I will type out my diet later.

What is the reasoning for increasing the reps? I originally geared my routine more for strength as you say (being A beginner)

Cheers
 
I tend to find my heart rate increases and I sweat a lot more when doing higher reps, so i figure that's more calories burnt. There's some science behind it when cutting but i'm no expert, i only know from what i've read on other forums.

I like to throw in a heavy session every now and again just to keep my strength up.
 
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IT's down to muscle adaptation.

If you do lower reps, it means you can lift bigger weights for fewer reps (as 100kgx1 squat may be just as hard as 50x8), but your body is not 'working' as hard (doing 100x1 is just 100kg, whereas 50x8 is 400kg).

The key to calorie burning is the amount of work put in, so the more volume shifted, the better.

If you were going for strength, then fine, but I suspect you need to build yourself up a base of conditioned muscle first (3x5 will do it, but a lot slower than 3x8 - trust me, you'll feel the difference. :) ).

You aren't happy with your progress as a result of this lifting regime (I think) and what is probably not a great diet. I'm not a monk myself, but I'm mindful of what I eat. Don't get me wrong - your increases in weights shifted is good, but I think you have been selling yourself short as a result of your routine and your diet. :)

Good work for not going into the gym, sitting in the squat rack, and doing bicep curls, however. :)
 
Okay, so if i lower the weight slightly and increase, I should start to see better muscle gains (assuming diet is sorted out)?

I will post my diet in detail shortly.

In terms of cutting/bulking/staying at maintenance, what approach should I be taking given my current composition?
 
What do YOU want?

If you are happy with your body composition, then go heavy on the weights (and I mean heavier) for 5*5 or 6*4.

If not, up the reps as already suggested, and sort your diet out. In fact, you should sort your diet out, whatever you're doing. :)

Simply eating well will make a fair bit of difference.
 
mrthingyx said:
What do YOU want?

If you are happy with your body composition, then go heavy on the weights (and I mean heavier) for 5*5 or 6*4.

If not, up the reps as already suggested, and sort your diet out. In fact, you should sort your diet out, whatever you're doing. :)

Simply eating well will make a fair bit of difference.
Click to expand...

Ultimately to lose the flab and put on a lot more muscle. But I'm unsure of the best approach take, for instance, cutting then bulking, vice versa, or staying around maintenance or just above and try to do both at the same time.

As a start I will up the reps as an attempt to increase the amount of muscle I put on.
 
Mr-White said:
A magical shake that'll make me ripped to **** while I sit on the couch all day eating Monster Munch pls :)

MW
Click to expand...

:D

WhyNow said:
Ultimately to lose the flab and put on a lot more muscle. But I'm unsure of the best approach take, for instance, cutting then bulking, vice versa, or staying around maintenance or just above and try to do both at the same time.

As a start I will up the reps as an attempt to increase the amount of muscle I put on.
Click to expand...

Right. On that basis, sort your diet out and increase your working volumes, with more sets, each with 8 or 10 reps.

In a few months when you've trimmed down, you can work on some muscle.
 
Ok, so I'd understand sorting the diet out to be a combination of eating the right foods and the right number of calories. What sort of calorie offset should I be aiming for?
 
Work out your daily metabolic rate and go from there.

I'd suggest starting at your BMR for starters and slowly cut back from there. Once you get both your food and exercise routines sorted, you can play around with both to find what suits you best. :)
 
WhyNow said:
Ok, so I'd understand sorting the diet out to be a combination of eating the right foods and the right number of calories. What sort of calorie offset should I be aiming for?
Click to expand...

95 kg = 209 lb.

Rough figures:

Cut = 12 x BW
Maintain = 15 x BW
Bulk = 18 x BW

Therefore start with 15 x 209 = 2500 cals per day and work from there.

Bear in mind that these are rough figures just to get you started. The key is to weigh yourself weekly and constantly adjust the calories up or down depending on whether you are gaining/losing at the right pace.

Remember also that your weight will fluctuate naturally, so you'll have to get an idea over two or three weekly weigh-ins.

I would suggest losing no more than 2lb per week and gaining no more than 1lb per week when trying to bulk. I would even suggest going as slowly as possible when bulking, for example 1/2 lb per week, but that said I prefer to be lean and defined and have the patience to gain slowly.

I cannot recommend enough the following links / reads:

www.LeanGains.com
www.BodyRecomposition.com
http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Program#Three_Flavors_of_Starting_Strength

They have helped me get the body I always wanted after 6 months of consistent dieting and training. I'm now into my third year of lifting / "dieting" and loving it!

Don't get lost in the details either - all that really matters is calories in vs. calories out and lifting heavy, ensuring that the weights are getting heavier all the time. Patience is criticial - this is going to take months and years.
 
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Ok thanks for the advice all

last question, if I stick to a 3x8-10 rep scheme how often should I be looking to add weight to the bar?
 
Hi all,

First of, upped my reps to 8 per set and lowered the weight for last nights session, very sore today...

Anyway I have typed up my diet and worked out the cals [p,c,f] as best I can. How does it look?

8am: 1 scoop protein 136 cal [30,3,3]

9.30am Subway
6" chicken+bacon on wheat 583 cals [38,40,30]

12.30pm Salad box from local burrito place with double chicken (about 200g) and scoop of white rice, sour cream, cheese, fried peppers/onions, lettuce
Guesstimate - 500 calc [50,31,15]

4pm Home made meal - 270g chicken, 55g brown rice, 70g full fat mozzarella cheese, fajita sauce, pepper, onion, garlic, chilli, fried in rapeseed oil

chicken - 288 cals [50/0/0]
rice - 175 cals [5,35,0]
cheese - 200 [17,0,12]
oil - 120 cals [0,0,13]
sauce - 80 cals [0,6,5]

total 863 cals [72, 41,30]

7pm Home made meal - 270g chicken, 55g brown rice, handful of full fat mozzarella cheese, fajita sauce, pepper, onion, garlic, chilli, fried in rapeseed oil
(breakdown as above 4pm)

total 863 cals [72, 41,30]

10pm glass of milk + 1 scoop protein
331 cals [39,18,15]

2 glasses of semi skimmed milk at some point during the day
250 cals [20/25/10]

Traning days: 1.5 scoops of protein post work out
204 cal [45,5,5]

Approx total:
Non training: 3525 cals [321,200,133]
Training: 3729 cals [376,205,138]
 
Looks fine as long as you're losing weight.

Don't worry about the absolute number as much as the result.

Also, don't worry about eating as often as that - I found it a pain and was hungry all the time.
 
Good work on the training! That soreness is your muscles thanking you for using them properly!

Diet? Erm... Not brilliant, really...

There's a lot of starch in there (do you really need that Subway? Scrambled eggs on brown or no bread... White rice in the 'salad' box?), some epic dairy (140g of mozzerala? :eek: and a bucket of milk?), and a fair amount of unknown fat (salad box).

The evening meal looks sort of ok, but I would strongly advise you to think about making your own food and sorting your breakfast out.

You are consuming pretty large quantities of calorie-dense food which would be fine if your activity levels supported it. This means you're gaining fat as well as muscle mass.

I'd cut out the milk for a start, and sort your breakfast and lunch out yourself. Your two dinners are novel but not necessarily bad for your objectives (aside from the cheese)...
 
Okay, thanks for the advice

Quick question - at present it looks like I'm quite a bit over maintenance, and hence some fat gains. But I wouldn't have said I'd made great strides in muscle gain (or strength). What could this be attributed to? Possibly not enough volume in my workouts?

As an immediate start I'll cut out the 2 glasses of skimmed milk and skip the rice at lunch. I'll look to rework my diet though. I'll probably aim for 3000 calories and aim to slowly lower the cals week by week depending on weight loss. What sort of p/c/f ratios should I look for? Can i expect to put on any muscle whilst dropping fat if the diet is in check?
 
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