Should I change my smart heating system?

Schizophonic

Schizophonic

Schizophonic

Soldato
Joined
27 Dec 2006
Posts
2,911
Location
Northampton
Currently have a Nest thermostat and its worked without any issues.

I'm planning for the coming winter and trying to find out if my logic make sense?

As I'm WFH and keeping the radiators on for the whole house doesn't make sense to me as I'll be in my office most of the day, however with the smart thermostats you can have smart value radiator values. Wouldn't make sense to have these installed in my house and only have them come on in my office? Does it change the cost of my gas / electricity bill by much over a period time if its only heating on radiator or have I got the concept wrong?

Help!
 
You mean add Smart TRVs to your setup?

Yeah, do it. They work well. Only put them on rads you need to control and don't go OTT - i.e. don't block off every rad but one as the system can explode (hyperbole).
 
Do you not have normal TRVs on your radiators already? Just set them to 3/4, or look up the manual for your TRVs and see what temperature the 1-6 values represent. All smart thermostats do is the same thing but let you control it on your phone, it's a lot of money for that 'convenience'.

Would the cost of replacing your TRVs in all of your rooms really save you that much money?

Example for TRVs:
www.screwfix.com

Honeywell Home Valencia White Angled Thermostatic TRV & Lockshield 15mm x 1/2" - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Easy grip TRV head with energy saving button that alerts to economical setting for comfort. Liquid sensor provides consistent and long lasting performance. Can be mounted horizontally or vertically and includes radiator balancing insert. 6mm play on radiator...
www.screwfix.com www.screwfix.com

And the manual:
0 - closed
Frost - 6 C
1 - 8C
2 - 12C
3 - 16C
4 - 20C
5 - 23C
6 - 26C

I suppose the benefit the smart ones give is that you could lower the temperature at certain times and increase them at others all automatically, whereas the old TRVs will be constant unless you get off your bum and change them all. Depends on your use case for certain rooms, that you want them to be warmer at certain times of the day or not.

They still don't seem like a 'save you money' piece of technology, rather a 'quality of life' piece of technology.
 
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Mason- said:
All smart thermostats do is the same thing but let you control it on your phone, it's a lot of money for that 'convenience'.
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No it's not.

They allow you to run a heating program in every room where you have them fitted.
So if the OP wants to run a program in his office, it will have nothing to do with the other rooms in the house and vise-versa.

It can be costly to have done, but there are definite benefits over a standard TRV system, especially as the smart TRV heads learn and adapt accordingly to the program you give each zone.

Unless you're going to spend hours each day constantly turning TRV's up and down!
 
Yes I was looking into the idea of having smart TRVs in the house.

Looks like we got some opinionated views on this subject. My thinking I want to share with you (if I'm right in this) is to ask does it actually affect my consumption gas bill if I was to have smart TRVs around the house, yes it will be expensive to replace my current values on my existing radiators (10+ maybe) but its when I'm working WFH (most days in the week) I want to really just heat up my office during those house when I'm home on my own.

Does the cost of heating my home actually make a difference when the boiler is on or off when having Smart TRVs vs standard TRVs like the one @Mason- mentions?

For example, say my boiler is on heating the house between 10am-Midday and its heating the WHOLE house as I've left my standard TRVs on a value of "3" Vs having my boiler on heating the house again between 10am-midday but my Smart TRV is set to 6 and the rest of the house is set to "0" or "1"

Or am I looking at this completely the wrong way? :(
 
FlyingFish said:
No it's not.

They allow you to run a heating program in every room where you have them fitted.
So if the OP wants to run a program in his office, it will have nothing to do with the other rooms in the house and vise-versa.

It can be costly to have done, but there are definite benefits over a standard TRV system, especially as the smart TRV heads learn and adapt accordingly to the program you give each zone.

Unless you're going to spend hours each day constantly turning TRV's up and down!
Click to expand...
You’re talking about zonal heating and that is separate from smart TRVs. If you buy a smart TRV and install it, all it will do is be a remote controlled TRV that you can program.

What you are suggesting is even more cost. And like I said it is a quality of life thing not a cost saving thing. It would not save you enough money considering the hundreds of pounds of initial investment. Which is the whole point of the OP, to save money.
 
Running a program in each room, rather than a set temperature, is a bit more beneficial than being just a 'convenience' as you said earlier.

Which is why I replied to and quoted part of your post earlier and not all of it.


Mason- said:
If you buy a smart TRV and install it, all it will do is be a remote controlled TRV that you can program.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Which is better than running a set temp in each room, because let's face it nobody goes around adjusting TRV's each day.
 
FlyingFish said:
Running a program in each room, rather than a set temperature, is a bit more beneficial than being just a 'convenience' as you said earlier.

Which is why I replied to and quoted part of your post earlier and not all of it.




Exactly! Which is better than running a set temp in each room, because let's face it nobody goes around adjusting TRV's each day.
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It is exactly a convenience thing. The ROI for one of these would be a long time. The whole point of OP is to save money. These won’t, unless he can get them for free or dirt cheap.
 
I think your missing my point!

I'm not disagreeing with what you say about the cost of these and how long it will take for them to pay for themselves, and at no point have I disputed that.

Smart TRV's will ultimately use less energy than standard TRV's (unless you adjust them manually on a daily basis).

You saying they are nothing more than for convenience, may well be your opinion. But it's factually incorrect.
 
FlyingFish said:
Smart TRV's will ultimately use less energy than standard TRV's (unless you adjust them manually on a daily basis).

You saying they are nothing more than for convenience, may well be your opinion. But it's factually incorrect.
Click to expand...
How much less energy, and how long is the payback period?

Smart TRVs by themselves don't do a whole lot. Unless they are integrated with your smart thermostat or boiler, then it's surely still your thermostat that controls when your heating runs?
 
Mason- said:
You’re talking about zonal heating and that is separate from smart TRVs. If you buy a smart TRV and install it, all it will do is be a remote controlled TRV that you can program.

What you are suggesting is even more cost. And like I said it is a quality of life thing not a cost saving thing. It would not save you enough money considering the hundreds of pounds of initial investment. Which is the whole point of the OP, to save money.
Click to expand...

They do add some level of zonal heating, as if the TRV in a room (zone) is switched off then no heat will be lost from radiators in that zone, reducing the energy required. Whether that saved energy is economical vs the cost of the TRVs is obviously down to some interesting maths :)

Armageus said:
How much less energy, and how long is the payback period?

Smart TRVs by themselves don't do a whole lot. Unless they are integrated with your smart thermostat or boiler, then it's surely still your thermostat that controls when your heating runs?
Click to expand...

I have Tado TRVs in the living room and bedrooms and they do integrate with the thermostat - e.g. if the main thermostat is at the desired temperature but room A is too cold, the TRV will still trigger the heating to come on.

It seems the prices have increased quite a bit though - I paid £140 for a 4 pack from Amazon 2.5 years ago, same pack seems to be £200+ now!

Not sure if there are any for Nest, so OP would possibly need a new thermostat as well, adding another couple of £££ to the upgrade cost, in which case probably not worth it for any cost savings.
 
I’m very happy with our Tado stuff. All rads have Tado valve on them and each room has a wireless sensor. Exception are the bathrooms so they heat up whenever any one of the other rooms are heating up. The stats can be a bit noisy though so bear that in mind if you want to use them in a bedroom. Not cheap but they often have special offers.
 
Armageus said:
How much less energy, and how long is the payback period?

Smart TRVs by themselves don't do a whole lot. Unless they are integrated with your smart thermostat or boiler, then it's surely still your thermostat that controls when your heating runs?
Click to expand...

A standard wax TRV will just slowly open and close to whatever ambient temperature is, and what number they are adjusted to. They are not that accurate, which is why none of them have a temperature scale, just a numbered scale.

Don't get me wrong, they are very good things to have, but that's all they can do.

A smart thermostat can run temperature programs for each area/zone and they will learn how a zone heats up and cools down, then adjust their operation accordingly. All while giving you the ability to change the temperature in that zone to your needs, which will lead to a boiler using less energy.

If You then have the smart TRV's part of a complete system, like evohome for example, the system will learn over a couple of weeks how to cycle the boiler for each zone for just the right amount of energy required. Evohome TRV's also open by % depending on what is required, they can also guess if someone has entered the room through a door etc etc. You can even bind them to a wall stat for more accurate temperature control.


How much energy saving and what costs, varies tremendously. But these things are designed to save energy while also giving you more control to have what you want and where you want.

And no, I'm not a salesman :D
But I have been a domestic heating engineer (if you can call me that) for 30 years. And yes our company fits everything from simple controls for the old folk, to clever smart controls for those who want it.
 
When I did my Heating system for the renovation we weighed up a few options, Evohome, Tado etc and I was pretty set on the Evohome until I spoke with my UFH supplier and in the end went with a full Heatmiser Neo system. The heating system was being done from scratch so we'd planned UFH downstairs with traditional S plan heating rads upstairs controlled by Evohome TRV's, the Evohome came in at the time about £800 more than bog standard controls plus the initial outlay for the heating. What we went for in the end was a second UFH manifold upstairs with each rad running off this with its own stat giving us complete control of every room in the house, this came in nearly double the price of the Evohome once I'd factored in the additional manifold, controller and hub, we calculated that with this amount of control we'd see those savings in a couple of years.

BUT one thing we didn't factor in which has only come to light recently is the incredible amount of heat the house retains with all the insulation, and on checking the history of the heating nothing has been on since the end of April.

It maybe that money is better spent elsewhere? just a thought
 
I think they can save money if you use them properly. I.e. 3 of the rooms don't get heated therefore the radiators that are actually on get warmer quicker. Or is that just not correct? I suppose it depends on your house / heating set up.
 
Freefaller said:
I think they can save money if you use them properly. I.e. 3 of the rooms don't get heated therefore the radiators that are actually on get warmer quicker. Or is that just not correct? I suppose it depends on your house / heating set up.
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Yeah but I reckon you're probably talking fractional savings. Boilers are pretty efficient if you think how a modern combi can chuck out enough hot water, uninterrupted, to run a hot shower.
 
dLockers said:
Yeah but I reckon you're probably talking fractional savings. Boilers are pretty efficient if you think how a modern combi can chuck out enough hot water, uninterrupted, to run a hot shower.
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Fair point. We don't have a combi (never have) but we do have a modern condensing boiler which as you say is very efficient.
 
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