Should Massa be watching his back?

Well Massa hasn't really looked all that great for a fair while now.

It may well be totally innocent, something that could have been planned regardless for some of their young drivers... but, it wouldn't fill me with joy if i was Massa.
 
Out of all the drivers I'd be least surprised at Massa losing his ferrari seat next year. I like the guy but he's just not performing to the level which that team expects.
 
Its nothing really shocking, he's still part of Ferrari's young driver academy.
Probably just want to see what he can do in a better car, to see if the experience at Sauber has progressed him at all.
 
arknor said:
2013 or 2014 depending on wether schumacher decides to take up his optional 1 extra year or not hes been offered
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This. Although if Schumacher sticks around and FI don't improve, he might start looking elsewhere.

Alpherah said:
Its nothing really shocking, he's still part of Ferrari's young driver academy.
Probably just want to see what he can do in a better car, to see if the experience at Sauber has progressed him at all.
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Putting young backed drivers in your cars to test isn't unusual, but putting drivers already in an F1 seat, and already backed by you, is. Its a 2009 car remember, so not really comparable to this years machinery. Its pretty much as if they are putting their 2 young drivers back to back to see who is best?

If Perez impresses, whats the chances of Perez jumping into Massas seat at Ferrari, and Bianchi taking Perez's spot at Sauber?
 
Westyfield2 said:
Yes. IMHO he's not all that good. Seems like he lost it after his accident.
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Has he? And there was me thinking he'd finished ahead of his illustrious team-mate four times in the nine races so far, and was easily starting races better than him as well¹.

Add to that little moments like the end of the Canadian GP, with his opportunistic piece of KERS+DRS usage to steal a place from Kobayashi right at the line. And his attempt at getting by Hamilton at the end of the race last weekend (which he would have made stick, had Hamilton not driven into the side of him ;)).

I don't think he's done just yet.


¹ - I did one of these for Hamilton and Button earlier in the year, will do it again for the Ferrari pairing. Positions made/lost on the opening lap, according to the lap chart:

Australia - Alonso down 4, Massa up 3
Malaysia - Alonso down 2, Massa up 1
China - Alonso down 1, Massa up 1
Turkey - Alonso up 1, Massa held position
Spain - Alonso up 3, Massa held position
Monaco - Alonso up 1, Massa held position
Canada - no changes, unsurprisingly (safety car start)
Europe - Alonso up 1, Massa up 1
Britain - Alonso held position, Massa lost 1

So Massa has the edge on getting off the line compared with Alonso, losing far fewer positions.
 
JRS said:
Australia - Alonso down 4, Massa up 3
Malaysia - Alonso down 2, Massa up 1
China - Alonso down 1, Massa up 1
Turkey - Alonso up 1, Massa held position
Spain - Alonso up 3, Massa held position
Monaco - Alonso up 1, Massa held position
Canada - no changes, unsurprisingly (safety car start)
Europe - Alonso up 1, Massa up 1
Britain - Alonso held position, Massa lost 1

So Massa has the edge on getting off the line compared with Alonso, losing far fewer positions.
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You know nothing less than victory is good enough for ferrari.

A technical victory of gaining more places etc.. doesn't cut it. The only thing that matters is points. Something Massa is quite short on at the moment compared with the rest of the top 6.
 
MrLOL said:
You know nothing less than victory is good enough for ferrari.
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Alonso best be 'watching his back' then, since he's only won once this season and is now unlikely to win any more given that the diffuser rules have gone back to the way they were in Valencia....

It's just the same old bull-**** that's been going around ever since Massa joined Ferrari in 2006. He had a bad start to that season, people called for him to be sacked. From the USGP onwards, he got six podium positions including two wins (Turkey and Brazil). 2007 rolled around, and Massa was the one to pick up the pieces for Ferrari when Kimi's form dipped in the first part of the season - in the five races from Bahrain to America, Kimi made the podium just once while Massa got two wins and two other podium finishes. Did the calls for him to be sacked stop? Did they ****. They certainly didn't when he retired from the first two races in '08, and then look what happened - he challenged for the title right up to the wire, and would have won it had Timo Clock not dropped so far off the pace on that final lap (inevitable though that was).

We'll never know what might have happened in 2009 when Ferrari started to find some form in the latter part of the year. When he was put out of commission, he was ahead of Kimi in the points standings (and still the one of the pair that all the armchair experts would sack in a heartbeat....). And despite not racing in the final 8 races of the year, he only finished four points behind a certain double World Champion Spaniard. And then last year, just as he was finding some form and about to win a race, they tug him over because poor little Alonso couldn't overtake him and wanted the extra points. And still the calls for him to be sacked come.

A few years back (probably in 2008) I asked what it would take for people to quit chanting 'LOL MASSA SUCKS LOL'. Seems like I have my answer at last.

Nothing.
 
We have done this before JRS so I will try not to bore you :)

I agree now that it's pointless replacing massa because anyone that goes to ferrari is going to be signing a driver 2 contract. May as well keep massa then.

That's the only reason I would keep him, performance wise he's a mile off Alonso. You can conjure up all sorts of stats, my tongue in cheek stats thread shows you can make gaps look huge depending on which stats you look at.

Ferrari know Alonso is on a whole new level and back him, the same as RB back Vettel. Yep Massa is getting off the line better this year but the race pace over the last 2 seasons are miles apart. Even with a sick car Alonso has been held up by his team mate.

I agree about Massa and Kimi, Personally I'd have sacked the pair of them. Kimi was no longer interested after his title and even that year was only on form for a handfull of races. I think the Ferrari was so good in 2008 that it flattered Massa with a team mate that should have done better, but kimi was done, collecting money. I think Lewis is the most lucky. Had Ferrari done what Brawn wanted and got Alonso rather than Kimi Lewis would still be hunting his first title. With a top line driver in the car that year Ferrari would have taken the title.

I think Massa is a bloody nice bloke but Ferrari clearly know who will extract more from the car even when it's not top class. I don't think it was right what they did to him last year, but it's easy to see why they did.

I don't think it's worth replacing him though, I think signing a no2 contract must change your mental state and desire. May as well leave what they have. Just the same as webber on a year by year deal. Gives them more control over him and can't be a coincidence the way his game has dropped this year. It's pretty obvious last year contractually he wasn't a no2 but Vettel resigned a deal last year and Webber gets a year by year deal. I think we all know what Vettel would have wanted and got. That must have an effect on the no2's head. Having Perez won't be much different from Massa.
 
A younger driver will be eager to prove himself, like Irvine under Schumacher, it makes for some more tension in the team but at the end of the day the no2 follows orders.

For a young driver, ordered to get out of the way or not, being able to test yourself against alonso in equal machinery is a hell of an attractive proposition.
 
I understand that but you have to question the mental state that unknowingly happens to you when you agree to sign a contract where you know the only shot you will get is if your team mate breaks his leg Also what happens to your mind when you know you are getting stiffed for the best equipment and updates.

It was alwasy heavily rumoured that Irvine didn't even have the same parity in software and electronics that MS had. That must eat away at you fast.

I agree for a while he will be hunger and eager to prove himself but I don't think he's anything like fast or consistent enough to bother Alonso and not end up in the same position as Massa in 6 months, under threat.

We all guess what contractual demands Alonso would have extended with ferrari under, Just as we can hazzard a guess Vettel got his own way at RB. I imagine Hamilton is playing much harder ball with Mclaren right now.

I wouldn't want to go to any of those teams right now, you would be a no2 and have your career seriously disrupted. Hamilton managed to do it because he was not only extremely fast and consistent but also he was Rons love child in a team he was born into. I can't see anyone on the grid right now that could break those 3's stranglehold in the teams without one of those 3 joining anothers team.

The best bet right now for another up and coming driver is Lewis to jump to RB and leave a decent seat at Mclaren. Hopefully that will happen.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I agree about Massa and Kimi, Personally I'd have sacked the pair of them. Kimi was no longer interested after his title and even that year was only on form for a handfull of races. I think the Ferrari was so good in 2008 that it flattered Massa with a team mate that should have done better, but kimi was done, collecting money. I think Lewis is the most lucky. Had Ferrari done what Brawn wanted and got Alonso rather than Kimi Lewis would still be hunting his first title. With a top line driver in the car that year Ferrari would have taken the title.
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Nonsense. In 2008 he had fastest laps at 10 of the grand prix. He suffered technical problems as 5 races and was takes out by hamilton in Canada. There was nothing wrong with Kimis form.
 
There was lots wrong with his form and motivation, he even talked of his own lack of motivation when no longer racing for wins.

His qualifying was poor and he got beat by a team mate for the first time since 2003. A normally vastly inferior team mate as well.

Fastest laps wow, one snap shot in an hour and a half race. Shame he couldn't get fastest laps on a saturday when it helped count for something. Vettel has one fastest lap this year. His form must be terrible.

He showed some flashes of brilliance still and did have some rotten mid season luck. 2008 was widely seen as a flop because of how good everyone knew how good he was and should have been.

This sadly sums up what became of Kimi :(

"That is the way it is," Raikkonen recently told Finnish TV station MTV3
when asked about his motivation. "If you know you are fighting only for
third place then you maybe don’t have the same speed for the whole race
as normal. If you have no chance to overtake or improve your position,
it is definitely not very interesting. When you are driving for the
title, naturally, things are completely different."
 
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