Should we scrap benefits?

Things change I've changed · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:24

And instead pay everyone a weekly allowance?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-everyone-100-a-week-whether-they-work-or-not

I'm not sure how financially viable this is and I'm hoping a few people on here can run some theoretical numbers, but on the surface I really like the idea of UBI (unconditional basic income), the benefit system is so complicated at the moment and Universal Credit doesn't look like it's going to make it any easier.

I understand for the current generation of people that receive benefits that this might seem like a scary proposal but I think for future generations that are born into a society where a conventional benefit system does not exist and everyone is given an allowance, I think it could do wonders for society, I believe people would learn to live within their means much better than previous generations, and it would also give people a lot more choice in life, many people that are happy on a lower income could work part time freeing up work for people that want more in life, how many homeless people would there be on the streets with a weekly allowance?

I know it sounds like a radical concept and I'm sure it's not easy to implement initially but what are we going to go in the future with more and more jobs becoming automated? A recent report suggests that by just 2036 eleven million jobs across the UK economy are at high risk of being automated, that's just 20 years away, what about 80 years in the future? that is just over the average life expectancy of a human being, what are we doing to prepare for this?

It's obvious we need a radical overhaul of the benefit system but maybe it just needs to be scrapped?

dowie · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:25

you'd probably have to reduce the income of everyone currently on benefits and clear out anyone not working from London/the South East... housing benefit in London probably already exceeds the level of most universal income proposals, £100 a week isn't going to cover the cost of a room in a flatshare let alone money for food etc..

Glaucus · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:28

This is the future, don't think the numbers stack up yet though. Need to grow GDP a fair bit for that.

Swiss if they do it will cost 186billion a year, a third of their GDP.
If we were to do the same, thanks to a much larger population would be 1.3Trillion. Or around 70% of pur GDP.

NexusK · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:30

Even in areas of the country with really low rental prices £100 a week would barely even cover rent for a one bedroom flat. It would end up with a lot of homeless people.

Hambut_Bulge · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:31

Human nature being what it is I think an awful lot of people, given a guaranteed no-strings living income, might just choose not to work full stop.

Eurofighter · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:31

Suerly people who can't work due to disability should get more benefits than those that can work.

BDEE · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:32

Rental prices would surely come down though, since the welfare state that put them at the currently sky high levels, would not be propping them up?

Things change I've changed · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:35

dowie said:
you'd probably have to reduce the income of everyone currently on benefits and clear out anyone not working from London/the South East... housing benefit in London probably already exceeds the level of most universal income proposals, £100 a week isn't going to cover the cost of a room in a flatshare let alone money for food etc..

I agree, like I said it's not going to be easy, but this is something to promote change in future generations mostly, but right now along with an allowance we would need to address social housing shortages.

Hambut_Bulge said:
Human nature being what it is I think an awful lot of people, given a guaranteed no-strings living income, might just choose not to work full stop.

But if they could afford to do so would that necessarily be a bad thing? End of the day that would be their choice?

dowie · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:36

Eurofighter said:
Suerly people who can't work due to disability should get more benefits than those that can work.

this too, everyone else can do even part time work at least whereas a disabled person gets stuck at the bottom with this sort of scheme - they should be on a separate higher level of benefits

Things change I've changed · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:43

NexusK said:
Even in areas of the country with really low rental prices £100 a week would barely even cover rent for a one bedroom flat. It would end up with a lot of homeless people.

Really? It's an allowance for each person, two people sharing a two bed-roomed flat would equal £200 total allowance.

Hambut_Bulge · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:44

lowrider007 said:
But if they could afford to do so would that necessarily be a bad thing? End of the day that would be their choice?

Yes, because the more who choose not to work, the fewer in work there are to pay for them. Consequently taxes go up; and more people at the bottom end opt out, because its not economically sensible to work and so on...

Efour · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:44

Paging Dolph, Dolph to thread please.

Ace Modder · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:44

Well how much is paid in benefits in the UK currently, and how much would be paid using this new scheme?

Does the math add up?

Danthus · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:49

Efour said:
Paging Dolph, Dolph to thread please.

He is just getting his tissue.

Rroff · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:50

BDEE said:
Rental prices would surely come down though, since the welfare state that put them at the currently sky high levels, would not be propping them up?

Problem with that is the transitional period - it would wreak havoc on countless people's lives in the interim before the market re-adjusted. (And collaterally things like crime would go through the roof in the short term).

Things change I've changed · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:51

Hambut_Bulge said:
Yes, because the more who choose not to work, the fewer in work there are to pay for them. Consequently taxes go up; and more people at the bottom end opt out, because its not economically sensible to work and so on...

Then your assuming a lot of people will choose not to work then, I don't believe that would be the case, I think a system like this would actually prove more people would choose to work without the need for a whip being cracked behind them 24/7.

adolf hamster · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:53

Its a good idea, as for london well want to live in london? Get a job, if not move to somewhere you can afford.

Another possibility is limited time jsa, that can only last for a certain number of years of a persons life, for example a year, after that go to rudimentary rations

Rroff · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:55

lowrider007 said:
Then your assuming a lot of people will choose not to work then, I don't believe that would be that case, I think a system like this would actually prove more people would choose to work without the need for a whip being cracked behind them 24/7.

Assuming basic standard of living was affordable it would be interesting as bosses would largely have to be nice(r) to their staff to keep the people they actually need and companies would need to actually offer some level of enticement to a lot of staff who are currently treated as disposable.

Pawnless Endgame · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:56

Eurofighter said:
Suerly people who can't work due to disability should get more benefits than those that can work.

I think also for some of the disabled too who can work but is stuck in low-end jobs. E.g. I have to read font size 24+ and that's with a -27 contact lens (1 eye only, other one is blind). And so because of this, I can't drive. I'm therefore stuck in £13k-£14k admin jobs because all of the IT jobs I want require a driver's license.

Rroff · 14 Apr 2016 at 16:58

adolf hamster said:
Another possibility is limited time dsa, that can only last for a certain number of years of a persons life, for example a year, after that go to rudimentary rations

Doesn't really work very well - the actual cost of it isn't worth the increase in crime and black market, etc. and you just end up paying it into extra policing and so on.