Hmmm but as components get more efficient and cooler all it takes is change to form factor look how small devices are becoming, full standard PC cases are becoming a bit bulky and old fashioned I think.
Shouldn't laptops be taking over now?
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Hmmm but as components get more efficient and cooler all it takes is change to form factor look how small devices are becoming, full standard PC cases are becoming a bit bulky and old fashioned I think.
MiSJAH, you find the weirdest things to argue about and, honestly, you're making a total fool of yourself in this thread. Just because you've read or watched thousands of videos on gaming laptops, it will never, ever make you anything even close to knowledgable. Can you just stick to complaining about your MSI laptop?
Gaming laptops at the moment are a compromise, as has been said many times in this thread. In a few years, it will surely change as new thermal solutions are developed, but right now it's a total compromise. I want to get the Asus Zephyrus S GX701 as it is almost perfect in every single way... except for it's relatively poor battery life of 5 hours of light-to-moderate usage (poor compared to something like a MacBook which, yes isn't a gaming laptop, but can easily squeeze out 9 hours). Or you can get something with a great battery, but then it's going to weigh a ton and not be very portable at all.
There is absolutely no counter-argument against this. Everyone wants the best gaming laptop ever made, but it hasn't been developed... yet. Companies like Asus and Alienware are getting closer and closer so there's that at least.
Gaming laptops at the moment are a compromise, as has been said many times in this thread. In a few years, it will surely change as new thermal solutions are developed, but right now it's a total compromise. I want to get the Asus Zephyrus S GX701 as it is almost perfect in every single way... except for it's relatively poor battery life of 5 hours of light-to-moderate usage (poor compared to something like a MacBook which, yes isn't a gaming laptop, but can easily squeeze out 9 hours). Or you can get something with a great battery, but then it's going to weigh a ton and not be very portable at all.
There is absolutely no counter-argument against this. Everyone wants the best gaming laptop ever made, but it hasn't been developed... yet. Companies like Asus and Alienware are getting closer and closer so there's that at least.
I'm a software engineer and use a custom built i7 8700 workstation with 3 hard glass monitors with a combined weight of 20kg.
My monitors are on a Ergotron stand and can be lifted and tilted in sync, I also use a microsoft ergonomic split keyboard and logitech left handed mouse, i'm also using Quadro cards and Asus Essence ST card with good speakers in office (i like good music while working!). I use a Silverstone FT-02 case and it's inaudible with temp controlled fans.
The main thing however is I write neural networks and I back test them against large data sets, the computer can run 100% usage for sometimes days. A laptop would simply not hold up to this abuse long term, where as my computer is so over engineered it's no issue.
For ergonomics, quietness and thermals a laptop does not compare to above.
My monitors are on a Ergotron stand and can be lifted and tilted in sync, I also use a microsoft ergonomic split keyboard and logitech left handed mouse, i'm also using Quadro cards and Asus Essence ST card with good speakers in office (i like good music while working!). I use a Silverstone FT-02 case and it's inaudible with temp controlled fans.
The main thing however is I write neural networks and I back test them against large data sets, the computer can run 100% usage for sometimes days. A laptop would simply not hold up to this abuse long term, where as my computer is so over engineered it's no issue.
For ergonomics, quietness and thermals a laptop does not compare to above.
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Family member of mine who brought my haswell parts, a month later resold the parts and brought a gaming laptop.
I would say laptop growth has been hindered by the following.
Competition from tablets and phones.
Lack of flexibility on components and upgrade potential vs gaming PC's.
Awkwardness of gaming on one. I get neck ache using my laptop for prolonged periods of times.
Basically for casual gamers its losing to touch devices.
For more serious gamers its losing to PC's.
It just is what it is.
I would say laptop growth has been hindered by the following.
Competition from tablets and phones.
Lack of flexibility on components and upgrade potential vs gaming PC's.
Awkwardness of gaming on one. I get neck ache using my laptop for prolonged periods of times.
Basically for casual gamers its losing to touch devices.
For more serious gamers its losing to PC's.
It just is what it is.
I'm guessing that's why you didn't present anything beyond your opinion?
Can you explain why a laptop could not be plugged into the monitors to perform these tasks? My present laptop CPU outperforms the I7-8700 by more than 10% - https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-9700K-vs-Intel-Core-i7-8700/4030vs3940
I agree that the cooling and sound benefits are with the desktop in your specific circumstance but which aspect of thermodynamics would hinder a laptop performing the tasks?
It's about redundancy, I back test a lot of neural network jobs, I often sleep with computers still running 100%.
Never mentioned my desktop is using Arctic Cooling CO fans (continuation operation), Seasonic Platinum, also the Quadro's, makes no sense to use a laptop for this work.
I even have a home server room, I take great care in building solid over engineered computers, I even use paste such as IC Diamond due to how reliable. Some of my machines have Western Digital Enterprise drives in them, I then under volt the computers to get heat and thermals even lower. If I went laptop all these options are taken away from me.
BTW I do also have a laptop it's an i3 with an SSD, but it's only used when I really need a portable computer.
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This does not explain why a laptop could not do the job. Unless you cannot sleep with a laptop in a another part of your house being switched on?
It makes no sense to use a laptop because you have continuous operation fans in your PC?
Does "over engineered" mean more complicated than they need to be? Or are they engineered correctly for the task required?
What are the differences between "heat and thermals" in regards to the laws of thermodynamics when applied to a PC?
Please tell me that you are not ignorant of the ability to undervolt a laptop CPU to reduce heat?
Which aspects of these options would be removed if you kept your "server room" and used an undervolted and repasted laptop with a better CPU than your present desktop? Actually let's pop a cooler under that laptop too, just like adding case fans to reduce temperatures too.
Should we also consider with WD's MAMR HDD's to be released later this year you can have 32TB of storage in a laptop along with 4TB of NVMe PCIe storage.
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laptops are never going to take over for any enthusiast, over a competently built and speced desktop built for speed, the thermal restrictions of a laptops form factor will always hamper them imo.
MiSJAH, i'm 45 years old. I've been around computers since I was 7. I've got 20 years in industry as a software engineer, been around plenty of hardware and server rooms also.
The only time you use choose a laptop is if something needs to be portable, for everything else we use workstations or servers as they are better.
The only time you use choose a laptop is if something needs to be portable, for everything else we use workstations or servers as they are better.
Much as that's fascinating, is there a specific reason you are avoiding the questions?
The general rule is for every 10c increase in temp of electronics, the failure rate of electronics increases by an additional 50%.
My i7 8700 runs at 42c at full load, with a system temp of 30c, and thats with my fans under 1/3rd use. Your laptop at full load will be 100% fan usage and extracting significant heat.
This is why laptops are significantly compromised for performance computing. They are also more of a fire risk as they heat up more, and contain lithium batteries.
Where are the reports of all the laptop fires (let's try within the last 10 years)?
Is your desktop @ 42°C performing it's tasks in any way better than my laptop @ 70°C?
More than happy to go toe to toe on your chosen benchmark.
Are you?
Edit: your claim of 10°C temp increase leads to 50% increase missed out that the ‘10°=1/2’ rule, is really only valid for a failure mechanism with a specific combination of activation energy / operating temperature and only if that is the mechanism that leads to failure in a component.
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Where are the reports of all the laptop fires (let's try within the last 10 years)?
Is your desktop @ 42°C performing it's tasks in any way better than my laptop @ 70°C?
More than happy to go toe to toe on your chosen benchmark.
Are you?
Edit: your claim of 10°C temp increase leads to 50% increase in failure missed out that the ‘10°=1/2’ rule, is really only valid for a failure mechanism with a specific combination of activation energy / operating temperature and only if that is the mechanism that leads to failure in a component.
HP recalled some laptop's only last year due to fire.
Heat is bad for electronics.
Only run benchmarks to check a new computer is running ok, more interested in running my own software on computers I built myself.
I'd say a fire would be caused by a faulty battery, it's unlikely anything near 100 degrees will cause a fire unless you're laptop is sitting on a pool or petrol or something.
There is only one advantage to a laptop and that portability, everything else they are disadvantage over a desktop/workstation/server.
It's why we have server rooms with servers, we don't have laptop rooms.
Any company doing CAD or creative development they use workstation computers.
When an F1 company simulates aero dynamics it's done on racks of computer servers.
The NHS has patient records on servers, not laptops.
If you visit the financial exchanges or clearing houses in London the screens are driven by desktop computers.
It's why 8 Pack builds his ultra high end computers inside large metal box's.
No matter how fast your laptop is the above is still correct.
Wait comparing server rooms to laptops? That's like asking a gamer why he's using a desktop and not a server room for his gaming.
Soldato
It's like telling a gamer he can't compare his desktop unless he's running a UPS ...
had power cuts galore yesterday, and more are coming as is a nasty fault in my area they cannot fix, they tripping power in entire street everytime they try to restart the faulty feed.
So my AMD rig without UPS took a sudden power cut not happy about. Main rig was ok as is on UPS, of course laptop was ok as laptop has built in UPS via its battery.
Laptops definitely have some technical merits, but its as I said before I feel for hardcore gaming PCs win out over them, for casual gaming touch devices win, where they seem king is for for portable production use and for portable gaming where the game is PC exclusive.
Microsoft's hybrid laptop/touch devices really should have cleaned up that part of the market but microsoft somehow failed I expect due to not having a android ecosystem.
So my AMD rig without UPS took a sudden power cut not happy about. Main rig was ok as is on UPS, of course laptop was ok as laptop has built in UPS via its battery.
Laptops definitely have some technical merits, but its as I said before I feel for hardcore gaming PCs win out over them, for casual gaming touch devices win, where they seem king is for for portable production use and for portable gaming where the game is PC exclusive.
Microsoft's hybrid laptop/touch devices really should have cleaned up that part of the market but microsoft somehow failed I expect due to not having a android ecosystem.