Significant change to contract/working hours

NoobCannon

NoobCannon

NoobCannon

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Joined
13 Jun 2011
Posts
6,053
Hi all.

looking for some advice here. Currently i work 0730-1600 (door to door) and cover 1 in 4 24h call out including weekends (including working days as normal)

my boss today has come out with a new rotor with an aim to “save the company overtime payments” in which they want us during our on call week, to work Monday to Sunday 0730-1600 as well as be on call and then have monday tuesday off the following week.

Now, i am unhappy with this for a few reasons. One because as it is currently i may not leave home at all at a weekend however if i do its at time and a half door to door. Two I have a young family and treasure my weekends i get to spend with them and three its a serious financial impact.

They are essentially asking me to change my sociable hours contract to a non sociable hours contract with an nice included financial penalty.

my contract states that my hours of work are 8-5pm Monday to friday and Any overtime is voluntary. 8-5 is with 1 hours lunch but we all take 30 mins and i start earlier as i pick up the morning jobs, its been this way for more than a year

Does anyone agree that this is a significant change and suggest how i should go about telling them that its unreasonable. At the moment they have asked for “input” on the rota i believe because my boss wants to try and sort it out on a local level initially.
 
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If they're asking for feedback explain what you have above. That with having a young family OT needs to be worth it.

If you can show him how much it would effect you financially.

That being said, I can understand if you're apprehensive (rocking the boat as they say)
 
What line if work is this; sounds brutal, and you can only have my sympathy.

No legal background, but would have assume any significant change to your contract, needs updating requiring your approval.
 
Lmg80 said:
What line if work is this; sounds brutal, and you can only have my sympathy.

No legal background, but would have assume any significant change to your contract, needs updating requiring your approval.
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Im an intelligent traffic systems engineer. So i fix/maintain traffic signals variable message signs etc etc (not speed cameras, everyone always asks about speed cameras)

i enjoy my job and have been doing it for 15 years now. Not that makes a difference to
The situation!
 
I don't know the legal side of it so don't want to offer potentially incorrect advice. But there seems to be some advice here:

https://www.peninsulagrouplimited.com/guides/changing-employees-working-hours/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/w...cts/changes-to-employment-contracts-overview/

The first thing you should do is check your contract to see what it says. If you don't have a copy then ask the company for a copy of it. But if it were me I'd decide what would make the change worth it, if there is. Then have a meeting with your manager to explain you don't want your contract changed and offer the following options.

1) Preferred option - No change to your working hours / contract and you continue working the same as now.
2) Next option - Increase in pay / holiday / whatever to make the unsocial hours acceptable to you.
3) If they insist on making the change with no offer of extra pay etc, then make it clear in writing that you are doing so under protest. Then seek further legal advice. I wouldn't mention legal advice to the company but would seek it independently.

You may also find that your bargaining position is stronger if you can band together with others who also don't want the change to happen, and present it to the company as a group instead of an individual.

I seem to recall @amigafan2003 was a union rep (sorry if I have that wrong). So hopefully he will see this and offer better advice than me.
 
Hades said:
I seem to recall @amigafan2003 was a union rep (sorry if I have that wrong). So hopefully he will see this and offer better advice than me.
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Hi Hades - thanks for the ping - yup, I've served my time as a TU rep (and branch chair / GEC member etc)/

@OP At the moment they are framing at as a consultation (although a lot of companies confuse dictation with consultation) so as montymint suggested, put your concerns in writing and feed that back to them. I would even be tempted as this early stage to state that you would not be wiling to accept a change of contract with the current proposals - go in strong. Now, they could force a change of contract on you, in which case you would register that you would then be "working under protest" (as stated by Hades) which gives you some legal protection down the line.

The important thing is that you HAVE to raise any concerns you have and state if you are not happy to suffer a change of contract. Not 'rocking the boat' is seen as an implicit acceptance of any changes in employment law.

Good page on ACAS detailing changes of contract - https://www.acas.org.uk/changing-an-employment-contract - have a read of that.

Out of interest, what is your own union rep saying about it?

Hades said:
You may also find that your bargaining position is stronger if you can band together with others who also don't want the change to happen, and present it to the company as a group instead of an individual.
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That sounds suspiciously like a Trade Union ;)
 
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Hades said:
I am actually a member of a trade union, which may surprise some people :)
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Many trade unions are now transitioning into more of a professional body, throwing off the shackles of the militant perception of yester year (about time too imho).
 
I don't believe i am part of any trade union. That i know of anyway.

At the moment we are trying to get a meeting together, there are only 4 of us in our area but we all work remotely in our given areas so having us all together will be frowned upon especially with the rona situation currently.

As they are currently asking for input is it worth waiting to see where it goes from
A potential meeting before raising my concerns?
 
NoobCannon said:
I don't believe i am part of any trade union. That i know of anyway.

At the moment we are trying to get a meeting together, there are only 4 of us in our area but we all work remotely in our given areas so having us all together will be frowned upon especially with the rona situation currently.

As they are currently asking for input is it worth waiting to see where it goes from
A potential meeting before raising my concerns?
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Personally I'd hold your own Zoom / Skype meeting with all four of you to collectively agree your position before any of you have a meeting with the company. Then try to have all four of you in the same meeting. You are always stronger together. If they are faced with four unhappy, united, staff then it puts you in a stronger position than persuading each of you individually to change your hours.
 
NoobCannon said:
As they are currently asking for input is it worth waiting to see where it goes from
A potential meeting before raising my concerns?
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No. You want to be setting the agenda, not them. Being passive will only result in a worse outcome.

And Hades is absolutely correct about getting your colleagues together, don't give your employers a chance to divide and conquer.
 
I emailed today and put my points across. I also asked if it was an official consultation yet and was told no. However he also got a bit upset.

gauging the response from my manager he wanted it to be agreed locally, over and done with and off we go new year. I think he was expecting us to basically roll over.

i neglected to mention that 2 members of staff are unfortunately new starters in the last couple of months so can almost guarantee as that as much as they wont want to change to these new hours they wont have much choice as will still be on probation. This limits us to two who are in a position to argue.
 
I can tell you how this usually goes from being involved in so many instances of it - unless the entire workforce stand against it and persistently over time they will find a way to bring it in step by step (and even if everyone stands against it they will probably find a way to single off the main "troublemakers" and isolate them so as to bring it through).

You will almost certainly find any union involvement utterly useless - a lot of talk but ultimately side with the company and ultimately aid them in easing it in just with maybe some small and largely meaningless concessions along the way that get erased in the long term.
 
Rroff said:
I can tell you how this usually goes from being involved in so many instances of it - unless the entire workforce stand against it and persistently over time they will find a way to bring it in step by step (and even if everyone stands against it they will probably find a way to single off the main "troublemakers" and isolate them so as to bring it through).

You will almost certainly find any union involvement utterly useless - a lot of talk but ultimately side with the company and ultimately aid them in easing it in just with maybe some small and largely meaningless concessions along the way that get erased in the long term.
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oh im fully expecting them to push at least some Part of it thru. But we have at least a few things going for us. I.e we are not easily replaceable And the longer we have until they force the changes thru the more time i have to apply for different companies. I will start to look once the official consultation begins
 
"I am the primary child carer for two young children at weekends. In the past when I've had to cover weekends the overtime has allowed me to pay a baby sitter. That will no longer be possible if overtime is no longer on offer. So I will have to revert to caring for my two young children myself at the weekend. A company must reasonably consider the impact on parents with young children and must not discriminate against us."

:)


I am not a legal expert etc. No idea if that will work. But maybe worth a try depending on how young your kids are.
 
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