Small office server advice

booyaka

booyaka

booyaka

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Any help would be great.

My boss has asked me to look at a recent quote he was sent to replace our ageing server.

Smallish office with approx 15 users. General email/office work and phones etc. Nightly back ups are done of the data/info etc on tape still!!

Quote from existing IT company comes in at around 6k to replace it all!!!!:eek::eek:

knowing a reasonable amount about hardware (but very little about networking etc) i suggested that the quote seems excessive!

However something I know very little about is SCSI hard drives - the quote for the server is:

Prices are without vat

HP DL380 G6 Rack Server (£1400)
2 x 1 gb of ram (£160)
4 x 146Gb SAS 10K SAS HDD Hard Drive (£175 each!)
3 x HP 146Gb 3G SAS 15K RPM Enterprise (£325 each!!)
10 x 1tb drives (£70 each)
plus various licenses for SBS etc.

Why do you need 7 scsi drives for a server? Also 10tb of backup spaces seems just silly as there is no WAY there is that much data to back up.

Also why do you need a specific Rack server when surely a small customer build server with 4gb ram and a good quad core cpu or something should/could do the trick for a lot less (or could it)
 
My only advice given your post is this...

Go through the quotation with the supplier and understand the components and their thinking. Don't second guess them. Tell your boss all is good and that they probably need to think a little more about bedding it all in and ensuring your getting the most from it, and maybe some training for your self to ensure you can administer it properly.

or.... you could tell your boss its massively overpriced and you could buy the components from overclockers for about a grand. He will agree and from that point forward the whole disaster your about to walk into will unfold and it will go spectacularly wrong.

FWIW, the quote looks find to me.
 
booyaka said:
Any help would be great.

My boss has asked me to look at a recent quote he was sent to replace our ageing server.

Smallish office with approx 15 users. General email/office work and phones etc. Nightly back ups are done of the data/info etc on tape still!!

Quote from existing IT company comes in at around 6k to replace it all!!!!:eek::eek:

knowing a reasonable amount about hardware (but very little about networking etc) i suggested that the quote seems excessive!

However something I know very little about is SCSI hard drives - the quote for the server is:

Prices are without vat

HP DL380 G6 Rack Server (£1400)
2 x 1 gb of ram (£160)
4 x 146Gb SAS 10K SAS HDD Hard Drive (£175 each!)
3 x HP 146Gb 3G SAS 15K RPM Enterprise (£325 each!!)
10 x 1tb drives (£70 each)
plus various licenses for SBS etc.

Why do you need 7 scsi drives for a server? Also 10tb of backup spaces seems just silly as there is no WAY there is that much data to back up.

Also why do you need a specific Rack server when surely a small customer build server with 4gb ram and a good quad core cpu or something should/could do the trick for a lot less (or could it)
Click to expand...

If it is any way business critical, use branded servers, no if's, and's or but's.

I would assume that a quite sizable chunk of that £6k is software and licensing?

If the 10x 1TB SATA drives are for backup, then whoever specced it is stupid. You don't back up to HDD on the local machine, ever. Junk them, and get a decent tape drive in there instead.
 
nice quick answers gents - thanks

I have no intention of building/servicing the server at all but he just asked as he knows I have a interest in pc's etc.

Software licenses and back up/24/7 coverage appears to be about £1.5k of the quote overall.
 
paradigm said:
If it is any way business critical, use branded servers, no if's, and's or but's.

I would assume that a quite sizable chunk of that £6k is software and licensing?

If the 10x 1TB SATA drives are for backup, then whoever specced it is stupid. You don't back up to HDD on the local machine, ever. Junk them, and get a decent tape drive in there instead.
Click to expand...

Exactly this.

The pricing seems pretty decent for the kit and is a decent spec for what you need. By all means shop around different suppliers and manufacturers for similar kit, but don't even consider doing a self build. Dell are likely to give you a good price, especially if you can get hold of an account manager and tell them you're competing against HP.

I'm not quite sure what they're getting at with the disk config - have they mentioned how they are configuring the arrays and partitions?

The backup idea is nonsense, I'm guessing for £70 they are external USB disks - they really have no place in a decent robust backup scheme. Get an LTO3 drive (about 1k with the controller and cable) and back up to tape, a grandfather-father-son scheme would work:

- Monday through thursday tapes, rotated weekly (4 tapes)
- Friday week end tapes, rotated monthly (4 tapes)
- Month end tapes (12 tapes), kept indefinitely.

If you're feeling tight, rotate the month ends annually and just keep a single year end tape. LTO3 tapes are £20 each and give you 400gb native and 800gb compressed - so thats £400 in media for the first year and £240 per year thereafter. A MUCH better option than USB hard disks.

What about software and licenses? What is being installed on it?
 
Software/licenses appear to be

OEM SBS Std with 5 CALS 1 Each 536.43 536.43
OEM WIN SBS Std 5 User CALS 2 Each 219.88 439.76
OEM WIN SBS Std 1 User CAL 1 Each 46.44 46.44
 
That makes 16 users - is that how many you have?

How many PCs are going to be accessing it? If, for example, you have 10 PCs but 16 users, you'd be better off with device CALs as you'd only need 10.

Does the server base quoted have any RAM included? 2gb is a bit tight with SBS 03, let alone 08!

What about AV and backup software?
 
16 people will be about right (14 currently with another new start shortly) all with individual pc's

Ram wise- HP 2Gb 1X2Gb PC3-106000 DRAM 1 Each 89.00 89.00.

However the spec of the server might already have ram in it - it's not clear whether this ram is extra on top of some ram in the new server or this is the only amount of ram.
 
Makes no difference then in terms of licensing - although think about the future, if you are likely to get more staff sharing the same PCs then go for device licensing. If you might get more PCs for the same users (meeting rooms, laptops etc) then get user CALs

Have you got a part code for the server?

A quick Dell quote gives an R710 with a quad core CPU, 8gb RAM, 4 x 300gb 15k SAS drives, SBS and CALs for about £5k, which I'd hope to get down below 4 with some negotiation. You might want to tweak the disk layout, I'd look at 2 x 146gb 15k in a RAID1 for boot drive and transaction logs and 4 x 300gb 15k SAS in a RAID10 for user data.

For £5k I'd be confident in getting the above spec with the tape drive and tapes. A better spec server with a better backup plan for a grand less.

Does that quote include any implementation though?
 
8gb is definitely plenty - I suggested it in the Dell spec because

a) wasnt much more than 4 or 6
b) futurue expansion
 
My 2p from a small business standpoint:

First of all, how much data do you currently have? Any heavy database use?

I think the SAS drives may be a little bit too much for your requirements (especially if you want to keep costs down).

I would look at spending the money on a beefy hardware RAID card (with BBU), and then say getting:
4 * 1TB RAID10 for data
2 * 500GB RAD1 for OS

Is it SBS 2003 or SBS 2008 you are looking at? Im guessing the latter in which case 8 - 12GB RAM is certainly not laughable. Id be looking at 8GB min (MS min system requirements are 4GB).

As for backup - once again depends on how much data you are going to need to backup.

EDIT: Also, you are a small business so im guessing single server - why go for rack mounted?
 
No, I agree 8GB is a good spec for SBS Standard. But SBS is very RAM hungry - things like SharePoint, the various SQL express databases that run, Plus exchange all takes its toll. RAM at the moment is no too expensive, and like Iaind said there is always future expansion hence the commend of between 8 and 12 GB...

Just my 2pence!
Rob
 
My initial thoughts...

Do you already have a server rack or plan to buy one? If not, then picking a DL series ProLiant is an odd choice. If budget isn't too tight, I'd look at the ML330 or ML350 (both G6).

Drive configuration also looks weird. I'd be looking 2 x 146GB for OS / Logs, then at least a 2nd RAID1 mirror for data (depending on space requirements etc).
 
Fast moving thread!!!

Anyway - we have some kind of rack server at present that beltches out lots of heat and noise and is falling over most of the time.

Appreciate all the time and answers already - lots of read!
 
I too will wade in with my opinion - £6k doesn't seem all that bad for what you've been quoted, but do shop around.

I recently specced a new box for our office (SBS based) came to £3.5k @ list from Dell, i think it was a R410, we don't have a huge storage requirement (only 4x 146GB drives) but it did have 16Gb ram and 2x 4C proc's.

This is direct from Dell though, so no IT company to pay for support/installation etc.
 
6k for the above isn't outrageous. Factor in a few days to understand your current setup, migrate any current apps/data, testing, sign off, etc.

SBS08 will be chunking on 6GB RAM out of the box. 8GB is min spec, imo, especially if you've got any line of business stuff to stick on there.

It's admirable you're trying to save the boss a few quid but by your own admission, this is not your area of expertise. If it goes **** based on your suggestions to shave a couple of quid here and there, are you going to be ready to step up? :)
 
What i would do:

Spec the server through Dell / HP direct (beat up one quote with the other) and you'll be able to get a decent spec server for ~3k and then hire the IT company to install and manage the system.

Best of both worlds
 
Major_Disaster said:
What i would do:

Spec the server through Dell / HP direct (beat up one quote with the other) and you'll be able to get a decent spec server for ~3k and then hire the IT company to install and manage the system.

Best of both worlds
Click to expand...

In reality, this won't work. It will either cost... the exact same or more, plus you'll add more time to the order (which someone at your company will now have to micro-manage) because you've ordered bits here and there. Then, should absolutely anything go wrong, you have allowed the consultancy the awesome get out of jail free card of 'well, we didn't supply the hardware, you'll need to take this up with your vendor...'
Do you want to be in the position where your backup is failing and the consultancy is blaming hardware and your vendor is blaming configuration?


The road to hell is paved with good intentions :p
 
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