Smart thermostat recommendation and stupid question

manic111

manic111

manic111

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Hi everyone

I'm looking to move to a smart thermostat, with a view to my heating knowing when I'm working from home (either because I tell it, or ideally because it works it out when I'm home during the week) and sets the heating accordingly.

Two questions. First, any recommendations? It looks like the options are Hive, Nest or Tado - I don't want to spend hours setting up smart devices myself, so while I'm sure there are better techy solutions I can't really be bothered with them.

Second, have I got a wired or wireless thermostat? Photos below - I think it's wired with a wireless controller. Is that correct?

PXL-20240930-080151731.jpg


PXL-20240930-080234055.jpg
 
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Looks like you have a boiler control (2nd pic), the thermostat could be wired or wireless, you'd need to remove the front off the thermostat to check, switch off the breaker on the fuse board that powers the heating first!
My old Honeywell thermostat had a battery powered display, but it was still wired back to the boiler.

What kind of hot water system do you have, combi boiler or hot water tank?

I think you'd need this Tado v3+ kit, it has a replacement control box and a wireless thermostat https://uk.shop.tado.com/products/wireless-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-v3

but......

Tado are about the bring out a new heating controller in the UK (it's already launched in Europe) called Tado X https://shop.tado.com/en/products/wireless-smart-thermostat-x-starter-kit

If you just want a wireless controller then the v3+ is ok, but if you think you might want smart TRVs then I'd wait for the Tado X.
They're still selling the v3+ TRVs but who knows for how long and of course the two systems are incompatible :mad:

If you want an easy hands off installation then contact British Gas and get them to install Hive, it'll cost more but they do it all
 
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nst68 said:
Looks like you have a boiler control (2nd pic), the thermostat could be wired or wireless, you'd need to remove the front off the thermostat to check, switch off the breaker on the fuse board that powers the heating first!
My old Honeywell thermostat had a battery powered display, but it was still wired back to the boiler.

What kind of hot water system do you have, combi boiler or hot water tank?

I think you'd need this Tado v3+ kit, it has a replacement control box and a wireless thermostat https://uk.shop.tado.com/products/wireless-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-v3

but......

Tado are about the bring out a new heating controller in the UK (it's already launched in Europe) called Tado X https://shop.tado.com/en/products/wireless-smart-thermostat-x-starter-kit

If you just want a wireless controller then the v3+ is ok, but if you think you might want smart TRVs then I'd wait for the Tado X.
They're still selling the v3+ TRVs but who knows for how long and of course the two systems are incompatible :mad:

If you want an easy hands off installation then contact British Gas and get them to install Hive, it'll cost more but they do it all
Click to expand...
Very helpful, thanks!

On the system, it's a fairly standard Vaillant combi boiler.

I have some cheapo TP Link TRVs already. My plan was to hook these together to a smart thermostat with Alexa (eg if I say "Set the heating in the study to 20c", for example, Alexa turns on the smart thermostat and the TRV, and can presumably then switch the thermostat off again once the TRV reports 20c).

Presumably, the old Tado can do that just as well as the new one? Or do you think I may be being overoptimistic in Alexa's capabilities, and that going all in on new kit would be better?

Edit:
I've pulled the front cover off the thermostat, and it's as below. I'm presuming that this means that it's wired, and that the wireless controller is just a controller - does that sound about right?
Whats-App-Image-2024-09-30-at-16-02-30.jpg
 
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manic111 said:
Very helpful, thanks!

On the system, it's a fairly standard Vaillant combi boiler.

I have some cheapo TP Link TRVs already. My plan was to hook these together to a smart thermostat with Alexa (eg if I say "Set the heating in the study to 20c", for example, Alexa turns on the smart thermostat and the TRV, and can presumably then switch the thermostat off again once the TRV reports 20c).

Presumably, the old Tado can do that just as well as the new one? Or do you think I may be being overoptimistic in Alexa's capabilities, and that going all in on new kit would be better?
Click to expand...

It sounds a bit complicated for Alexa, she can control the main thermostat, but getting the temp from a TRV and then controlling the heating sounds more like (the can of worms that is) Home Assistant.

The current v3+ system will do all this for you, Screwfix have got good deals https://www.screwfix.com/search?search=tado tado&category=cat830950
 
manic111 said:
Very helpful, thanks!

On the system, it's a fairly standard Vaillant combi boiler.

I have some cheapo TP Link TRVs already. My plan was to hook these together to a smart thermostat with Alexa (eg if I say "Set the heating in the study to 20c", for example, Alexa turns on the smart thermostat and the TRV, and can presumably then switch the thermostat off again once the TRV reports 20c).

Presumably, the old Tado can do that just as well as the new one? Or do you think I may be being overoptimistic in Alexa's capabilities, and that going all in on new kit would be better?

Edit:
I've pulled the front cover off the thermostat, and it's as below. I'm presuming that this means that it's wired, and that the wireless controller is just a controller - does that sound about right?
Whats-App-Image-2024-09-30-at-16-02-30.jpg
Click to expand...

That's the controller, behind that cover will be the wiring for the system, I'm pretty sure you need to replace this with the controller box in this pack https://uk.shop.tado.com/products/wireless-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-v3

If you remove the front from the thermostat in your first picture can you see how many wires are connected?

As before, PLEASE turn off at the fuseboard before opening up any covers.
 
Having owned both the Wiser system and now the Tado v3 I'd prefer the Wiser as it just seemed to work better plus, in a larger property, the Wiser smartplugs extend the range of the hub. Also, up until recently, the tado heating schedules didn't work if there was no Internet, thus a cold house. Now they have a offline mode which you need to request. Haven't researched the new Tado X yet, which isn't compatible with v3, as it isn't yet in the uk.
With the Wiser setup the schedules are stored in the hub, so will work even if there is no Internet.
 
Considering a hive thermostat. The install of the receiver looks a little more involved than I thought with having to wire it into the boiler. YouTube has some helpful videos on the subject. My boiler, likely near where I would locate the receiver is in the garage on the opposite side of the house to my router and where the hub would go. Wondering if the signal strength would be sufficient.
 
Macky said:
Considering a hive thermostat. The install of the receiver looks a little more involved than I thought with having to wire it into the boiler. YouTube has some helpful videos on the subject. My boiler, likely near where I would locate the receiver is in the garage on the opposite side of the house to my router and where the hub would go. Wondering if the signal strength would be sufficient.
Click to expand...

I've pulled the trigger on a hive for my Worcester combi.

Hoping somebody is able to answer a daft question I have - why is it not possible to simply replace my existing mechanical dial thermostat and wiring with the hive receiver? Does the Hive receiver require more connections to the boiler? If so, why and what are the extra connections facilitating?
 
Macky said:
Considering a hive thermostat. The install of the receiver looks a little more involved than I thought with having to wire it into the boiler. YouTube has some helpful videos on the subject. My boiler, likely near where I would locate the receiver is in the garage on the opposite side of the house to my router and where the hub would go. Wondering if the signal strength would be sufficient.
Click to expand...
Should be - my hive receiver is literally the furthest corner away from the hive box/router.

Macky said:
I've pulled the trigger on a hive for my Worcester combi.

Hoping somebody is able to answer a daft question I have - why is it not possible to simply replace my existing mechanical dial thermostat and wiring with the hive receiver? Does the Hive receiver require more connections to the boiler? If so, why and what are the extra connections facilitating?
Click to expand...
Do some research - I went autistic on it recently. I opted for hive when originally installed but all being equal, hive is a pretty Noddy thermostat. It just tells the boiler on and off. If you have a proper thermostat it can do weather compensation and adjust flow rates.

If your boiler is new enough it might be worth opting for a better stat with OpenTherm. Only the EU tado does this and Nest.
 
Think I've answered my own question. My conventional stat only has a live and neutral wire going to it. The hive receiver needs three, live, neutral and switched live. I guess because the hive needs always-on power to power the receiving element whereas the conventional stat does not.
 
Macky said:
Think I've answered my own question. My conventional stat only has a live and neutral wire going to it. The hive receiver needs three, live, neutral and switched live. I guess because the hive needs always-on power to power the receiving element whereas the conventional stat does not.
Click to expand...
What it will actually be is that someone has used flex and your dial thermostat has a permanent live (sent from the boiler) and a switched live (return from the thermostat when it's cold). So there's no neutral available to power the new Hive bit. Unless you rerun the cable.

nst68 said:
As before, PLEASE turn off at the fuseboard before opening up any covers.
Click to expand...
To go further than this - the switch at the boiler should be a 2 or 3 pole and disable the neutral (if it's been wired properly to regs). Switching the breaker at the fuse board leaves the neutral in circuit unless it's an RCBO. So safer to switch off at the boiler, but can't hurt to do both.
 
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LuckyBenski said:
What it will actually be is that someone has used flex and your dial thermostat has a permanent live (sent from the boiler) and a switched live (return from the thermostat when it's cold). So there's no neutral available to power the new Hive bit. Unless you rerun the cable.


To go further than this - the switch at the boiler should be a 2 or 3 pole and disable the neutral (if it's been wired properly to regs). Switching the breaker at the fuse board leaves the neutral in circuit unless it's an RCBO. So safer to switch off at the boiler, but can't hurt to do both.
Click to expand...

Cheers, gotcha.

I plan to isolate the boiler and remove the fuse from the isolator as well as safety test it with a multimeter.
 
Tado is brilliant, but not in a large house. Quite how they havent released an extender is bizarre.

If you have a small / medium house though... great bit of kit.
 
Varys said:
Can't you get off the sofa and turn the heating on? Just seems like a waste of money to me, moreso if you're at home all day.
Click to expand...

What I've found with the Hive after a few days use is that the boiler has been on less than with our previous thermostat as the thermostat on the hive is more precise. In addition, the scheduling and temperature can be very precisely set within Hive. Will be interested to see how we get on in the winter re: overall gas usage.
 
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