Snooker/Pool cues, educate me!

apeZ

apeZ

apeZ

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Before anyone says, I have already searched and looked through a few threads.

I'm after a cue, primarily used for pub pool because I don't like many of their cues. Some are in awful condition (varies from pub to pub) and its weird using different ones all the time. I've heard that the best way to go is to buy your own cue and stick to it, so that's what I plan to do.

Now, the problem is, there are no dedicated snooker/pool shops in my local area, so I can't really try before I buy. There is a snooker club which I go to every now and again, and they do sell cues but I don't know how suited these would be for pool. I'm quite happy to use the clubs cues when I'm there, but if I had a cue that worked for both pool and snooker, that would be great.

Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm not a total beginner, and I can play semi-consistently and I'm looking for a personal cue so that I can get used to the feel and not screw up when it comes to more difficult shots.

I also don't want to spend more than £50.
 
I could talk for hours on this subject. Pool was once the love of my life. Although never fully pro I used to play in the London Super League and with many of the top UK Pro Pool players (Joe Barbara "Maltese Joe", Andy Lopez, Alan Murray, Pat O'Kane) in the mid '80s. Plus I played more than a few big money challenge matches. By chance I even played Eric Bristow once who fancied himself a decent pool player as well as a Darts player. I won the Pool but he made me look like the total idiot I am when it comes to Darts. On average I played over twenty hours a week in those days. Most of my spare time really. Those were the days. :D Once in pre-match practice and witnessed by my team mates and several of the opposing team I made four break clearances out of five breaks. But for the life of me I never managed the magical three straight. That still niggles me now.

Anyway, ideally for Pool you need a smaller tipped cue than for snooker. I'd recommend 6mm to 9mm although I've known those who had cues specially made with tips as small as 4mm !!! :eek: But those cost. Also ideally you want a two piece cue with the joint at 3/4 length nearest the butt and with the male joint on the smaller end. That way you can take the small bit off and be left with a short cue for those annoying places in pubs where you have difficulty fitting in a whole cue. Yet again that costs. Things to bear in mind for down the road though.

For your current budget I'd suggest any two piece Riley cue makes sense, as close to your maximum budget as possible. Just get the best deal you can find on the net. Don't forget the better you get at the game the less money you'll be putting in the tables so its a good investment. ;) Riley make some cues with 9 to 9.5mm tips. So pick one of those. I'd also suggest you make sure it has a Blue Diamond tip on it. Some folks like Elkmaster tips but for Pool a Blue Diamond is usually better. Tips are easy to change. If you've never changed one then the best way is with standard SuperGlue but remember to dampen both the tip and the cue end slightly with water first. That helps the glue take. Also grab yourself a cue file for once its set. Tips are too hard cornered when you fit them at first. What you want is a gently curved shallow dome, a bit like an upturned saucer.

When it comes to a cue case the best is a hard case. And a waterproof one if possible, especially if you'll be leaving it in a car boot. The best case you can get is cheap to make. Go to a plumbers supplies. Get a length of plastic piping a bit longer than your cue plus four screw on end cap fittings. Cut it down into two bits to fit your two cue parts when taken apart. A small length of sponge pipe lagging is also useful to slip over the cue to stop it rattling when in its new case. You'll need to design a strap to hold the two parts of the case together. An old leather belt works well.

Anyway, I hope all this helps. One last thing. Get plenty of chalk and get into the habit of chalking after every single shot.
 
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Wow, thanks for that long post, I really appreciate it!

Couple of things:

- Would a hard tubular case be a better option, as I'll be travelling with it? The plain rectangular hard cases look a bit awkward to carry around, whereas I can sling the tubular cases over my back. Not sure if this is good/bad for the cue though...

- Do the cues from Craftsman's Cues online have a good reputation? They have pool cues in the £40-50 range, and they seem to be a bit more of a professional supplier. I'll have a look around for some Riley's though.

I'll probably have a few more questions further down the road, and I'm trying to get into the habit of chalking after every shot too.
 
I would suggest the following cue. £5 over budget but absolutely ideal. Good tip size (8-8.5mm great for snooker and pool) and a 3/4 joint for tight places as I said earlier. Terrific price really for what it is. Back in the '80's you couldn't buy those off the shelf so it had to be a custom job. I'd buy this one instantly if I needed a cue for pool today.

See - http://www.craftsmancues.com/acatalog/Barracuda_cues.html

Re a case you really need a case for a two piece cue. Full length or 3/4 cases are just not easily transported. Ideally a good hard case but not the wooden box kind, they fall to pieces. Didn't see any alloy cases on the quick scan of the site I had time for. The one on top and bottom of the following page looks good and says solid but can't tell if there are hard tubes within it. There probably are.

See - http://www.craftsmancues.com/acatalog/2pc_cases.html

Pool tip two - Always stay down on the shot until you have competed your follow through and the ball has fully left the cue tip. You'd be amazed how many folk jump up well before their action is completed.
 
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BTW The best chalk, indeed the only one most good pool players will use is Green Triangle

See - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRIANGLE-Gree...0694742725?pt=UK_SportingGoods_SnookerPool_RL

Re tip files the plastic emery paper shapers are cheapest and best. They usually come with some extra paper but once that runs out just cut emery paper to size.

See - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PERADON-POOL-...260012220&po=&ps=63&clkid=5040434572602663663

Oh and no need for a special cue cleaning cloth. An old tea towel or a cloth beer mat is ideal. Just tie it to your cue case but always make sure you have one with you.;)
 
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Heck you've really got me at it now. So many memories.

One tip re Snooker and Pool. In Snooker the object ball and the cue ball are the same size. This means that it is easier to run the ball through forward to gain position. With Pool the object balls are bigger than the cue ball (due to the way the return mechanism works on tables). This means that it is easier to screw a ball back than run it through. Always remember this and work out your positional play accordingly. Think of them as two similar but actually very different games. That's true tactically as well.

Snooker is 90% potting 10% tactics. Pool is more 50/50. The classic pool play against someone who is not top draw is not to pot any of your own balls at first. Let them bang a few balls in and usually they won't clear up. Then when they've made table space and only have a few balls left, while yours are still all there, just tuck them up (i.e. Snooker them), get your two shots and clear up yourself. I've seen good players tease each other for ages to pot the first ball. Done it myself often. Because if they do try to clear up and don't then they are dead for sure. They'll be tucked up and the other guy will then clear with his leeway advantage of the spare extra shot.
 
Cheers! You seem to know what you are talking about, so I'm probably going to take your advice and opt for that cue and the first case (£14 tubular one).

Regarding the cue, is there any specific weight I should opt for? I'm most likely to get used to whatever I go for, unless you have any recommendation? Options are 15.5oz, 16.5oz, 17.5oz and 18oz. I'm tempted to just go for the middle of the scale and get a 16.5oz one.

Also, I think I've found the same cue on eBay for a bit cheaper, and it comes to £58 or so with a hard tubular case - perfect!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BARRACUDA-BLU...ol_RL&var=&hash=item7216b90643#ht_6995wt_1129

Keep the tips coming! I'm out to play pool tonight, so I'll see what difference they make.

Appreciate all the help. :)
 
Yep, get it the cheapest place you can find. Regards weight, 16 to 16.5 is ideal. I'd only say get heavier if your main game was Snooker.

Have fun.
 
Ordered one earlier, should be here in a few days!

Just got back from the pub, couple of questions:

1) Is there a secret to a good break? The guys I was playing with just said to put as much force as possible into it, and some of them even put their whole body into it. I can't seem to get as much power, I tend to hit the stack and only a couple of balls go loose.

2) Creating a good bridge to take a shot. I'll admit I'm a big fan of an open bridge, I've just got used to it, but after watching the others play, I saw a much bigger variety. I tend to create a bridge with my left thumb pressed against my left forefinger (this is new though, I used to keep my thumb apart and rest the cue in between my thumb and forefinger. The problem with the old technique is that the cue tended to slip quite a bit, and even the new technique needs a bit of practise. Any pointers here would be appreciated!

Chalking after every shot seems to be better, my shots feel more consistent and I generally get the same response shot after shot if I chalk in between.

I still need to make sure I stay down after taking a shot i.e. waiting for the followthrough; sometimes I give up too easily.

Screwing a ball back definitely makes positioning easier. However, I still need to learn exactly what to expect from the cue ball and try and put the right amount of power on it to put me in a decent position for the next ball. That leads to my final question...

3) When you are snookered (correct term in Pool?) and you need to rebound off the cushion, do you have any tips for ensuring that you hit the object ball? I know some shots will always be difficult, but I'm trying to find the correct line so that I manage to hit the object ball when under pressure rather than fouling.
 
Is there a secret to a good initial break? Power is definitely the key and hitting the lead ball of the pack squarely head on. Most good players tend to stun the ball into the pack or very. very slightly screw back rather than hit the ball with top. American Pool is slightly different with heavier balls and very often their top players carry two cues. A very heavy one for breaks and a lighter one for play. You can even buy cases for such in the USA that look like four tubes side by side to carry both cues. I had a chance to feel the weight of Jim Rempey's (the top US pro) break cue in the '80's. His break cue felt like the butt was solid lead filled. But for our pool really it is just a case of developing your own cue power over time. I know what you mean about folks who seem to throw their whole body at it. Not really needed. Just drive the cue through hard as you can from your normal cueing position. From what you say my bet is that you are currently cutting short your follow through. Try to make sure you drive right through the cue ball long and hard. Developing a long follow through is vital also to developing cue power when it comes to screwing back. Indeed a flat level strike, low on the cue ball with long follow through is THE key to screwing back with power. Rather than striking somewhat down on the ball as a lot of folks do.

Bridging? Well no two players I've ever known bridge identically when it comes to pool. But however you bridge, the only vital rule is that it is solid and doesn't move. I used a very closed tight bridge with all fingers touching for pool totally different from the open bridge I use for snooker, mainly because space is often tight on a pool table and you can get a tight bridge lower to the cloth for screwing back. As I think I've said before, with Snooker less shots require srewing back compared to pool. That and the fact that the balls are bigger means there is not as much need in Snooker to have such a lower bridge. I therefore agree with you here, keeping the thumb pretty tight against the forefinger worked best for me too. TBH though I've known other good players who kept their thumb and finger so apart that you'd think they weren't talking to each other. And one or two that hook their forefinger over the cue as many American's do. Really, just find a position that is comfortable for you and which you can use consistently and keep solid.

Regards staying down after taking a shot keep at it, it really is vital.

When it comes to screwing a ball back it is always about developing a sense of touch and also developing cue power. You can't really do either until you get your own cue. Without it there are to many variable getting in the way. When you do get your cue what you will be trying to develop is the ability to screw back a length from a length. That is to say pot a ball that's sitting over a top pocket starting with the cue ball behind the baulk line and screwing the cue ball back to the bottom cushion. Strangely enough you will find that as your cue power increases so does your sense of touch. Then you can start also to develop the ability to judge a combination of screw and side at the same time, probably the most important positional technique in pool.

Your last question is a tough one re cushion escapes. Such shots and situations vary so much. What may be right in one situation is not in another. Plus in a lot of shots I would not be hitting plain ball but instead adding side for various reasons so as to either increase my chances of hitting the object ball or to stop me going in off when I hit it. Equally sometimes I would go a different route rather than a simple one cushion route. Really its something you can't coach in the main so I can't really make any firm suggestions and TBH even your own approach will change over time as you develop increasing knowledge of angles and increasing ability to add varying levels of side with consistency. In the end you'll need to use that skill less and less because you'll be the one snookering most of the time and clearing on most occasions where you get two shots.

Watch this video and watch the cueing on the shots. You'll notice how the ball is often hit with a combination of screw/stun plus side.
See -
 
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Cheers for the video, I looked at some others after that to get an idea of what the professionals do. Can't wait for my cue to arrive (Monday most likely) so I can get practising with it. I played a bit at lunchtime today, managed to get some more power into my breaks although I need to practise hitting the pack dead-on. Any reason for screwing back on the break? I also saw an amusing moment last night with someone potting the black on break, got a few laughs!

I'll work on the bridging too, it is very situational! I'm not a fan of the forefinger over cue technique as you mentioned, always found that there was too much friction between the cue and underside of my forefinger, but that's just my opinion. I've also been reading a few articles about the tangent line, and hopefully that will give me a better idea of where the cue ball will go after a shot - it seems crucial to understanding position and how certain shots (forward, screw, stun) put the cue ball in a different place relative to the tangent line.

Another question - are folding pool tables for home a waste of money? I've been looking at them, and most reviews are quite against them (just like the graphite cue backlash) although I really need a table to practise on regularly rather than just play match after match and have to pay for the privilege. I want to set some shots up, work out how to use different techniques to my advantage etc - would it be worth investing in one? The only problem is that I hear they are very different to slate bed (but I don't have the room, nor the money for one!) and thus will react differently... I'm also a little concerned about their sturdiness. I used to have a small snooker table as a child, perhaps 3 or 4 feet, and it was okay for a bit of fun but incredibly wobbly and often not level.

I would be looking at something like this:

http://www.madfun.co.uk/Pool-Tables/BCE-Riley-6ft-Folding-Snooker-Pool-Table-(RS-6AG)-March-Price

That might be total junk though...I'll leave it to you to give your opinion.

I'm looking around to see if I can get club membership or something though. There's a snooker club near me, but it only has 1 pool table and it is pay-per-play. The pool society I'm in have 2 pool tables to use, but there are 15-20 of us so it's hardly ideal. Most pubs are £1 per play, and I don't have the freedom to practise by myself.

Main advantage of having my own is being able to use it when I want - I've probably already spent upwards of £50 in the past year or so on pool games down the pub...
 
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Re stunning or screwing the break shot the main reason it to try to keep the cue ball in an open position rather than it running through close to an object ball or onto a cushion.

Forget the home tables. They really won’t teach you a thing. The only route is a proper slate table. So what you need is to start winning more games so you can hold the table longer down the pub with the challengers putting the money in and with you getting more table time/experience.

The quickest way to do that is to use your head to win games until your shot play improves and you can win quickly that way too. So here are a few tips.

Play mean. And I truly mean, very, very, very mean.

This is what to do. If you don’t think you can clear up with certainty then endlessly tuck the other player up (i.e. snooker them) or make their next shot very hard. Do this no matter what stage the game is at. Literally look to get yourself two shots ALL the time. If for any reason you can’t snooker them then put the cue ball onto the face of one of your own balls. OK they’ll still be able to see their balls but to hit them they will have to bridge over and strike over your ball making the shot very, very hard for them. They may even touch yours and give you two shots anyway.

Whenever you get two shots, never hesitate to use those two shots to win yet another two shots. By that I mean use the first of your two shots to either improve the position of your own balls a bit or use it to make the position of your opponent’s balls much more difficult. Then with the second on your two shots, snooker them again to win another two shots. Keep it mean all the way continually.

Also immediately cover/block pockets with one of your own balls whenever you opponent has a ball or two near a pocket or one on a side cushion where it can only be best potted in that particular pocket.

Repeat the above until all your balls are in good positions so that with your next two shots you can be pretty sure of clearing up.

Finally, even when you do go for your last balls and the black, try to work out the best way where if you do by any chance miss then your opponent is not left with either an easy opening pot or an easy chance to snooker you.

Long before my potting and positional play was at its best I won a small tournament and a holiday just using those tactics ruthlessly against far better potters. So I can guarantee that they do work if you stick to them.
 
this thread is fascinating reading

Nothing really to add because i'm **** at pool and do nothing but embarass myself when playing with mates, but its making for good reading.
 
A bit of interesting Pool trivia.

In the UK we play 8-Ball pool on the Australian lines. The yanks play lots of different games of Pool and use numbered balls. In all three versions of the 8-ball game the game only ends when the 8-ball (the black) is potted either intentionally or accidentally.

Now what do they call 8 in Bingo or even the 88? They call 8 the fat lady and 88 is two fat ladies. Now you might be able to work out the true origin of the saying, "Its not over until the fat lady sings", which is actually a corruption of the original American expression.

The expression started out as, "Its not over until the fat lady sinks", in other words its not over until the 8-ball (the fat lady) is potted (sinks).

To use a British expression, not a lot of people know that, but it is absolutely true. The saying never had anything to do with anyone singing it came from the Pool halls of America.
 
Looking for a decent pool cue myself. Is the Barracuda blue pool cue still the one recommended for the £50 bracket?

Cheers!
 
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