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So, Corbyn Loves China. Interesting...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Orionaut, Jan 26, 2018.

  1. Orionaut

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,713

    Mention in the news yesterday.

    What I find interesting in this is that, for many years, I have felt that modern China is the practical embodiment of a 21st century Nazi state.

    I DO NOT MEAN THIS AS SOME SORT OF SPECIFIC INSULT TOWARDS OR CRITICISM OF CHINA MIND.

    (Before anybody has a go at me about that statement)

    It is Just an observation.

    Had Germany survived WW2 I could certainly see her political and economic system evolving along similar lines.


    All the elements are there.

    1) A long standing sense of cultural and ethnic superiority
    2) A very disciplined and strongly rule based society (Chinese after all, invented "Legalism" as a form of government )
    3) Strongly hierarchical governance, the name of the roles may have changed, but China is still an Empire and still has an Emperor.
    4) A fair degree of command economy, but....
    5) One where private enterprise is strongly encouraged and pretty well given free rein.
    6) In the main, those who dont "Get with the program" are likley to be subject to harsh treatment.
    7) Despite all of the above (And despite the presence of small pro-democracy groups) the Government is actually quite popular with the majority of Chinese citizens. (The Nazis enjoyed a surprisingly high level of support by German citizens right up to the end of the war, even when they were losing badly)

    (One interesting caveat however. The phenomena of "Nail Houses" Seems that Chinese citizens, despite living in a totalitarian, authoritarian dictatorship. nevertheless seem to have individual property rights that people in western democracies can only dream of. :confused:)

    Now, the Nazi model isn't actually a bad one if your primary objective is rapid Economic, Industrial and Technical progress (As the ever controversial Gene Rodenberry pointed out in the Star Trek TOS episode "Patterns of Force" first broadcast in the late 60's )

    So, is Comrade Corbyn really a closet Nazi at heart??

    ;) :D
     
  2. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,832

    In b4 the "Nazis were left wing really" debate starts... in 4,3,2,1....
     
  3. Tunney

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 11, 2004

    Posts: 14,549

    Location: London

    What did Corbyn say exactly? Did he call them a great bunch of lads?
     
  4. Sliver

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 10,827

    Location: Darlington

    Implying China are comparable to Nazis just exposes a lack of understanding. China in fact is a quasi communist state. So a comparison to Russia would be closer to the truth. China has embraced capitalism so one could say based on that they are closer to a Western democracy.

    Also that last remark about Jeremy Corbyn : "So, is Comrade Corbyn really a closet Nazi at heart?" is just laughable pro right propaganda.

    China is well on the way to becoming the worlds most powerful superpower, eclipsing America. One important and salient point to make is that they are not belligerent. Unlike the Nazis.
     
  5. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 12,648

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    The majority of Brits feel the same way.

    The majority of Brits accept our society's structure

    The majority of Brits still look back fondly at the Empire, and we still have a Queen

    Yes

    Yes

    The program is set by the majority of Brits who vote in the government of the day, and those that don't fee lthey're treated harshly.

    The Brits recently voted to maintain the existing electoral system.

    Hmm.
     
  6. Caged

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 23,560

    My input here would be don't drink Red Bull when you're trying to get to bed
     
  7. jamoor

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 22, 2005

    Posts: 8,481

    Location: Nottinghamshire

    Indeed they have a massive competitive advantage economically compared to any democracy.
     
  8. Sankari

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 29, 2007

    Posts: 24,782

    Location: Adelaide, South Australia

    China's system is not even vaguely close to the Nazi model. It's completely different in almost every possible way.
     
  9. Blackjack Davy

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 16, 2009

    Posts: 3,548

    China is a communist state... yep. Can see why he loves them.

    Russia is not a communist state.
    Capitalism does not equate to democracy.
     
  10. Sliver

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 27, 2011

    Posts: 10,827

    Location: Darlington

    I know. Capitalism thrives in a democracy though so in that sense it DOES equate to a democracy.
     
  11. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,742

    So much rubbish in one post
     
  12. Fusion

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 10,218

    Location: Notts

    On very shaky ground there. Free trade (not that China conducts wholly free trade) doesn’t equal free people. They are not on the way to “eclipsing” America in power and influence terms either. Even if they become the world’s largest economy, they will still be way behind the US in GDP/capita.

    Military budget nowhere near America’s, don’t have the global network of bases, extent of the nuclear arsenal, technological advance, etc.
     
  13. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,688

  14. XeNoN89

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 6, 2007

    Posts: 8,008

    Location: SW19

    Corbyn is a communist so i'm not surprised.
     
  15. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 20,688

    Well he's not actually is he, otherwise he would be head of the communist party, not the Labour party.

    He doesn't want to overthrow capitalism.
     
  16. =XDC=FluphyBunny

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 16, 2010

    Posts: 4,582

    Location: North East England

    What the story actually said:

    'Communist China is responsible for the majority of success in slashing extreme poverty, a spokesman for Jeremy Corbyn claimed today.'

    It was said in relation to how successful China has been in combating poverty which it has in some respects but not always in the interests of its people and mainly due to the huge numbers of people who were in poverty to begin with. True or not the OP clearly reads headlines and not the actual story and is a very sad reflection on our tabloid fed population unable to think for themselves.
     
  17. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,813

    Location: London

    Interesting he glossed over the fact the cultural revolution killed 10's of millions of people in their own country. Either he too stupid to know this or too heartless to care
     
  18. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 67,950

    Though that sounds logical at face value - those on the more extreme left have become more sophisticated of late (though it has always been something somewhat encouraged in Marxism) and realise they can get further by presenting a more generally acceptable face while pushing towards their true ideology.

    That said I don't believe Corbyn is a communist or Marxist but he is very vested in the radical left and borrows from many of those ideologies. People have to be a bit naive given his background if they think that suddenly now he has switched all that off despite the face value impression.

    Off the top of my head the US military capabilities dwarf both Russia and China combined in terms of budget and hardware and overall "power" - China might have massive man power and Russia can maintain parity in strategic assets but overall combined they aren't even close to being able to wage war at the level of the US.
     
  19. adolf hamster

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 18, 2012

    Posts: 7,220

    china is just a communist state that was smart enough to learn from the ussr's example and let in enough freedom and capitalism to keep the people happy whilst maintaining power.

    we have to remember that just because capitalism won against communism, doesn't make it the best system for running a country.
     
  20. Dis86

    Suspended

    Joined: Dec 23, 2011

    Posts: 23,246

    Location: Northern England

    Agreed. I personally think it's an awful system and communism in its purest form is brilliant. Sadly communist states far too easily become a dictatorship kleptocracy. Can't actually think of one that hasnt.