So do i have this right???

Woody...!!! · 16 Oct 2009 at 15:48

the ATI 5870 does not beat the GTX295

i was going to buy 1 but i think i will wait till the 5870 x2 comes out, or nvidia get there finger out, their version of dx11 cards

SfnX · 16 Oct 2009 at 15:53

well it just depends on the games ur playing, yes it does get beat on roughly 60% of the games vs the 295, but remember that 295 has 2 280 gtxs in plus 1792mbs (896 per board). also the pre alpha drivers are not the best that ati can offer, so yes id wait and see what comes along, then make a decision!

magicroundabout · 16 Oct 2009 at 15:56

Woody...!!! said:
the ATI 5870 does not beat the GTX295

i was going to buy 1 but i think i will wait till the 5870 x2 comes out, or nvidia get there finger out, their version of dx11 cards

Basically No.

what your first line should read is:
"the ATI 5870 does not beat the GTX295 in some games but beats it in others"

Basically it pushes the 295 all the way and in some cases beats it.

Subtlesnake · 16 Oct 2009 at 16:28

According to the techPowerUP review, the 5870 beats the GTX 275 in 4 out of 19 games (CoJ, Stalker, Stalker: Clear Sky, Quake 4). Overall, the 295 is 15% faster at 1920x1200.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/30.html

According to the PCGH review, the 5870 beats the GTX 295 in 1 out of 9 games (WoW). Overall, the 295 is 8% faster at 1920x1200.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...rst-DirectX-11-graphics-card/Reviews/?page=17

Woody...!!! · 16 Oct 2009 at 16:49

Subtlesnake said:
According to the techPowerUP review, the 5870 beats the GTX 275 in 4 out of 19 games (CoJ, Stalker, Stalker: Clear Sky, Quake 4). Overall, the 295 is 15% faster at 1920x1200.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/30.html

According to the PCGH review, the 5870 beats the GTX 295 in 1 out of 9 games (WoW). Overall, the 295 is 8% faster at 1920x1200.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...rst-DirectX-11-graphics-card/Reviews/?page=17

Interesting

LoadsaMoney · 16 Oct 2009 at 17:04

5870 beats the 295 in some, 295 beats the 5870 in some, so id say they about the same, but the 5870 does not have any drivers yet, so its only going to get better once it starts getting some.

Orcvader · 16 Oct 2009 at 17:22

Once ATi gets the drivers right then the 5870 will beat the 295 in a majority of games. But yeah, I think waiting for the 300 series would be better, whos knows what NVidia has hidden away...

rexehuk · 16 Oct 2009 at 17:51

Why would you think it would beat it?

GTX = 2 CPUS
5870 = 1 CPU

The fact the 5870 comes very close to TWO cards is good. Not sure why people bitch about it so much!

Jakc · 16 Oct 2009 at 17:57

Even when I was looking at getting a 295, I'm now glad that I'm sticking to my x2 5870's.

That said, I wonder what the 5870x2 will present us...

Subtlesnake · 16 Oct 2009 at 18:02

LoadsaMoney said:
5870 beats the 295 in some, 295 beats the 5870 in some, so id say they about the same, but the 5870 does not have any drivers yet, so its only going to get better once it starts getting some.

Except the GTX 295 beats the 5870 in far more benchmarks than the 5870 beats the 295 in.

Orcvader · 16 Oct 2009 at 18:06

Really theres no point in benchmarking the 5870 with early drivers... wait for better ones :|

ejr22 · 16 Oct 2009 at 18:08

rexehuk said:
Why would you think it would beat it?

GTX = 2 CPUS
5870 = 1 CPU

The fact the 5870 comes very close to TWO cards is good. Not sure why people bitch about it so much!

GPU

Woody...!!! · 16 Oct 2009 at 20:03

rexehuk said:
Why would you think it would beat it?

GTX = 2 CPUS
5870 = 1 CPU

The fact the 5870 comes very close to TWO cards is good. Not sure why people bitch about it so much!

well it is new technology, and dx11, and the gtx295 has been out for ages, so i thought it should beat the nvidia gtx295

bru · 16 Oct 2009 at 20:07

Orcvader said:
Really theres no point in benchmarking the 5870 with early drivers... wait for better ones :|

other than the fact that pretty difficult to benchmark it with out drivers (hehe someone should try it just for fun

).

a driver availible at the launch of a card can hardly be classed as pre alpha, unless you really are haveing a dig at the ati driver team....

Woody...!!! · 16 Oct 2009 at 20:16

rexehuk said:
Why would you think it would beat it?

GTX = 2 CPUS
5870 = 1 CPU

The fact the 5870 comes very close to TWO cards is good. Not sure why people bitch about it so much!

well it is new technology, and dx11, and the gtx295 has been out for ages, so i thought it should beat the nvidia gtx295

Woody...!!! · 16 Oct 2009 at 20:17

wow double post

Randell · 16 Oct 2009 at 21:32

Woody...!!! said:
well it is new technology, and dx11, and the gtx295 has been out for ages, so i thought it should beat the nvidia gtx295

This is where peoples expectations are out of kilter ever since SLI/Crossfire/multi-gpu set-ups made a comeback. Its is highly unlikely that any new gen, within 18 months of the prior gen, will ever beat the 2x gpu board or sli/crosssfire config of the prior gen. However a smaller, cooler, cheaper single chip of about the same overall performance of the 2x last gen is worthwhile and of course 2x new gen gen beats 2x old gen!

Oh and GTX295 out for ages? less than 10 months between 58xx and GTX295

Subtlesnake · 16 Oct 2009 at 22:42

Randell said:
This is where peoples expectations are out of kilter ever since SLI/Crossfire/multi-gpu set-ups made a comeback. Its is highly unlikely that any new gen, within 18 months of the prior gen, will ever beat the 2x gpu board or sli/crosssfire config of the prior gen.

Well, the new generation just needs to offer more than 70% more performance, to beat out its multi-GPU ancestor, I think.

And I don't think it's especially unrealistic to have such expectations, given the fact that they've been met in the past (the 4870 was more than double as fast as the 3870, for example) and the fact that moving to a new process gives you double the transistors to play with, for the same die area.

And the reality is, ATI did more than double up the 4870: the 5870 has 2.26x the theoretical power of its predecessor. That's why the 60% to 70% performance improvement we see is disappointing. If Fermi delivers double the performance of the GTX 285 (which is quite possible given 512 vs 240 ALUS), it will wipe the floor with the multi-GPU cards.

Randell · 16 Oct 2009 at 23:12

Subtlesnake said:
And I don't think it's especially unrealistic to have such expectations, given the fact that they've been met in the past (the 4870 was more than double as fast as the 3870, for example

That was more the function of the R6xx under performing! The gt280 wasn't faster than a 9800GX2 or even 8800gt sli for example.

rexehuk · 16 Oct 2009 at 23:17

ejr22 said:
GPU

Lol. WOW ITS A NEW GPU?

That means nothing and is a pretty crap argument. Just cause it has come out after a 295 doesn't mean that it will beat or even be aimed at beating a dual GPU card.

Fact of the matter is that the 5870 comes dam close to beating a 295... so why don't you buy two if you want over the performance? Given that 5870 is what £300 while 295s are 340+.

This isn't even accounting for driver updates, which are obviously in their infancy for the new series. Lower your expectations, nothing scales up exactly 100% within that short space of time.

If you had any concept of moores law you'd know that it is a good few months before that becomes reality in an ideal world. The "new" technology means NOTHING at the moment. DX11 isn't optimising old Dx10 titles, it's still using the same standard in modern games, so why would you say its a new tech? Sure the shader count has increased... but the clock speeds have stayed the same, and memory speed increased slightly over the 4870/90. The only real technology in the physical chip design is the nm process, all that is going to do is make it more power/heat efficient while allowing increases in speed (which we haven't seen on a mhz level yet, but maybe on the 5890).