So I'm one of those "should I get a 1200" types..

b.cummins · 27 Nov 2008 at 17:52

I've had watercooling for two years however about 10 months ago I switched back to air. I've been using the silverstone TJ07 for all that time and I've now come to find it's not as hot (forgive the pun) on the air-cooled set up as it was when I was running water. It's also an utter DUST MAGNET. I opened the case the other day and was welcomed by a dust tundra - recently I had to reduce the temps on my overclock now i know why, and the gpu cooling has never been particularly fantastic either.

So my current dilemma is I want to nab a new case for air cooling. I doubt i'll have any problems selling on my TJ07 so I can probably come up with a budget of about £200. I've been looking around a lot and no matter how hard I try to move away it always moves back to the twelve hundred. I'm concerned that as someone who's used to a high quality aluminium chassis, I'm going to get it and end up thinking - what the hell did i do! So I've also looked at lian li's but the twelve hundred seems to have it all - dust filters, fantastic cooling, anti-vibration mounts and fantastic cable management.

I was also looking at the new coolermaster ATCS-840 however it seems to have vanished having a supposed release date of the 26/11/08, and i also heard its air flow was inefficient.

So I'm after anti-vibration mounting, air filters, outstanding air flow (i also really like how the coolermaster has a cut out for mounting cpu coolers).

Am I just dancing around my answer or is there something else that can fit the order?

wingnuttzz · 27 Nov 2008 at 18:46

Lian-LI A77

same size and idea as the 1200 (space for 4 fans behind a grill on the front), but better looking i think and i would imagine better made

smilertoo · 27 Nov 2008 at 19:01

a1200 is great at what does...cooling quietly, but its also a dust magnet (luckily it has fan filters).

b.cummins · 27 Nov 2008 at 20:06

wingnuttzz said:
Lian-LI A77

same size and idea as the 1200 (space for 4 fans behind a grill on the front), but better looking i think and i would imagine better made

This is a pretty good suggestion although I do have a few niggles:

First off there's not GPU orientated cooling. It also doesnt look like the cable management is going to be as good as it could be. The case itself is very attractive and much more solidly built, the only issue is, the 1200 still appears to be more functional, if you see my point?

EsaT · 27 Nov 2008 at 20:48

b.cummins said:
I was also looking at the new coolermaster ATCS-840 however it seems to have vanished having a supposed release date of the 26/11/08, and i also heard its air flow was inefficient.

It has lot of airflow but it's not so well controlled. (especially foremost top exhaust draws air out through route where it can't cool anything)

For all 5.25" design Lian Li A77 is in top of my list.
Much more space than in overhyped "barely houses long graphic card" 1200.
http://lian-li.com/v2/tw/product/upload/image/A77/a77f03.jpg

Open front isn't best from noise aspect so if that's important A70/71 aren't so leaky and especially A71 has silencing friendly design because of door.
http://lian-li.com/v2/tw/product/upload/image/A70/detail.jpg
http://lian-li.com/v2/tw/product/upload/image/A71/71 detail.jpg

Side panels are very big and aluminum is light so lining them with some heavy damping mat helps lot in case of resonances.
For cooling expansion cards there's accessory BS-03 "PCI cooling kit" which draws air out from that area. (and instead of breaking front in-back out airflow like side holes it reinforces it)
http://www.lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/pro...ex=232&cl_index=2&sc_index=34&ss_index=83&g=f

b.cummins · 27 Nov 2008 at 22:29

EsaT said:
It has lot of airflow but it's not so well controlled. (especially foremost top exhaust draws air out through route where it can't cool anything)

Does that mean a top exhaust fan doesn't necessarily make that much difference then?? I mention this because the fact that the A77 doesnt have one was a bit concerning for me.

EsaT said:
For all 5.25" design Lian Li A77 is in top of my list.
Much more space than in overhyped "barely houses long graphic card" 1200.
http://lian-li.com/v2/tw/product/upload/image/A77/a77f03.jpg

So do you think i'd see similar temps inside the lian li to what i would in the 1200? I do wonder if this "wind tunnel" effect actually works since it supposedly does so at a 45 degree angle..
the A77 is looking more and more attractive at the moment and silence isnt particularly the biggest issue on my mind, though I've heard its quite quiet and that is a plus.

I also wonder why does OcUK not stock the A77!

EsaT said:
For cooling expansion cards there's accessory BS-03 "PCI cooling kit" which draws air out from that area. (and instead of breaking front in-back out airflow like side holes it reinforces it)
http://www.lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/pro...ex=232&cl_index=2&sc_index=34&ss_index=83&g=f

Would a pci slot cooler not be more effective than this pci fan?

b.cummins · 27 Nov 2008 at 22:44

smilertoo said:
a1200 is great at what does...cooling quietly, but its also a dust magnet (luckily it has fan filters).

is it possible to cut the leds on the fans? I realise it would be permanent

my TJ07 is surprisingly loud so it would be a welcome change!

beefybarn · 27 Nov 2008 at 23:11

How about a coolermaster haf932 or a nzxt tempest, both great cases and far better looking than the cheap plastic look of the 1200 in my opinion.

Dicehunter · 28 Nov 2008 at 08:01

lian li cases are seriously overpriced, ugly and over rated.

b.cummins · 28 Nov 2008 at 09:48

beefybarn said:
How about a coolermaster haf932 or a nzxt tempest, both great cases and far better looking than the cheap plastic look of the 1200 in my opinion.

The HAF was actually my first choice however i noticed the size of the fans and lack of dust filters which was one of my biggest gripes (I know I'm difficult). Obviously looking at cases like this I'm someone who values performance over aesthetics.

I'm actually not familiar with NZXT at all, however I think I prefer the latter two cases to this one in general!

b.cummins · 28 Nov 2008 at 09:50

DF1986 said:
lian li cases are seriously overpriced, ugly and over rated.

But are they? Aluminium as a raw material is certainly not cheap in that quantity, and to brush anodise a case is a relatively expensive process. As for over-rated I can see where you're coming from - It does seem like for Lian li Style & Build>Functionality.

Alex R · 28 Nov 2008 at 12:31

DF1986 said:
lian li cases are seriously overpriced, ugly and over rated.

EsaT · 28 Nov 2008 at 14:01

b.cummins said:
Does that mean a top exhaust fan doesn't necessarily make that much difference then?? I mention this because the fact that the A77 doesnt have one was a bit concerning for me.

Would a pci slot cooler not be more effective than this pci fan?

If purpose is keeping noise under control (especially CPU heatsink using only case airflow) additional airflow can do something good only if it actually cools something instead of just drawing airflow to somewhere where it isn't needed: One user of CM Cosmos had 10C CPU temp drop after making airflow guide which directed intook air toward CPU heatsink simultaneously forcing top exhaust fans to draw their air from back end of the case and above CPU HSF.
And with actively cooled case heat doesn't have much chances to gather to top if there's just some airflow in there and most heat is exhausted directly in where it's created. (CPU/graphic card area)

Standard PCI slot cooler also works but that would cool only card next to it (+eats slot) while BS-03 draws air from between all cards.

b.cummins said:
But are they? Aluminium as a raw material is certainly not cheap in that quantity, and to brush anodise a case is a relatively expensive process.

What I've heard at least part of brushing is apparently done manually so that isn't the cheapest thing.
And pure aluminum might be rather cheap considering aluminum is abundant in Earth's crust but it's also useless soft and weak without alloying... and alloy used by Lian Li isn't soft. For any bigger cuts you want real angle grinder because used alloy literally eats cheap basic cutting wheels of Dremel style rotary tools. (tried that when making hole to motherboard tray for changing CPU HSF without removing motherboard)

b.cummins · 28 Nov 2008 at 19:31

The thing is the A70 is a very similar price to the twelve hundred and the A77 isn't THAT much more. It doesn't seem so clear cut when you're talking about an aluminium case and a solid steel and plastic case around the same price..

EsaT · 28 Nov 2008 at 21:40

You're right... Antec is overpriced.

b.cummins · 30 Nov 2008 at 20:26

So I just thought i'd re-enliven the thread as I'm still at an ends.

As far as it comes down to the choices, I'm thinking either the antec twelve hundred, or the lian-li PC-A70.
With a few modifications, I'm reasonably confident that the Lian-li would match the air cooling performance of the twelve hundred (the main thing that puts me off is I like the look of the Lian li a lot more and I prefer aluminium for a case as it generally makes things cooler.

For both cases I would replace the stock fans: I can't stand LED fans and I have my own mix of panaflo 88cfms and some yateloon 70 cfms, i'd probably add the scythe 1900rpm 110 cfm fans to the mix - so my first question

Does having a mix of fan strengths affect air cooling performance detrimentally, or should I look to have similar fans across the case - i.e. I know higher CFM = better flow but I don't know about static pressure and all this malarky.

Secondly, if I were to take either, i'd have a cut out of the motherboard tray like the coolermaster for fitting a CPU cooler, as I think thats an amazing idea.

If I were to have the Lian li, I'd probably get a blowhole cut in the side for gpu cooling and maybe even one in the top of the case for either 1x230mm or 2x120mm..

In doing that could I get a better air cooling case than the twelve hundred, or at least the equivalent? as similar fan set up + the benefits of aluminium says to me it should work!

EsaT · 1 Dec 2008 at 09:28

If case has over pressure that excess air will find its way out from there or in case of under pressure airflow into case increases untill it's balance with exhaust... With holes in case you just can't make big pressure difference between inside and outside of the case.
Yate Loons should be very good ones if they're models similar to Nexus. In case of different fan speeds one of the best places for highest speed fan would be as back exhaust next to CPU because that's where big part of heat is generated.

A70 has so well controlled airflow that while providing spot cooling hole in side as overall messes airflow... then again there's surely enough fans for keeping HDDs cool so at least they won't be left out without airflow but still won't be good noisewise. (BS-03 seems to be coming more easily available now)
Top is that far from any heat source that hole in there probably does much more for messing airlow than increasing cooling unless you somehow manage to move CPU or GPU into 5.25" bays. (check Bit-techs review of ATCS 840 for effects of drawing too much airflow into wrong place)

I did that hole to motherboard tray for changing CPU HSF and if you don't have angle grinder make sure you have plenty of cutting wheels for Dremel/whatever you have, especially basic cutting wheels are eaten by that aluminum alloy probably as well as by steel.

b.cummins · 1 Dec 2008 at 15:38

EsaT said:
If case has over pressure that excess air will find its way out from there or in case of under pressure airflow into case increases untill it's balance with exhaust... With holes in case you just can't make big pressure difference between inside and outside of the case. ... A70 has so well controlled airflow that while providing spot cooling hole in side as overall messes airflow...

So in other words, adding extra holes and fans would have a detrimental effect on case cooling performance, even relative to GPU cooling?

EsaT said:
...then again there's surely enough fans for keeping HDDs cool so at least they won't be left out without airflow but still won't be good noisewise. (BS-03 seems to be coming more easily available now

I suppose but from what i've heard its the graphics cooling which suffers - I'm just not 100% convinced by this "thermal tunnel" business. The idea of adding a hole was to the PCI slots to provide additional calling to the graphics card - unfortunately having a case as long as the PC-A70 it would be too problematic to add the BS-03.

EsaT said:
Top is that far from any heat source that hole in there probably does much more for messing airlow than increasing cooling unless you somehow manage to move CPU or GPU into 5.25" bays.

Which is exactly what the Twelve hundred offers .. It's almost convincing enough for me to forego a case I feel looks better as I haven't seen any evidence comparing the Twelve Hundred to the PC-A70 - Come to think of it I haven't seen any thermal results from the lian li.

All things considered the twelve hundred appears to be a far better performer than the Lian li if you boil it down to what temperatures I'm going to get inside my case.

EsaT said:
check Bit-techs review of ATCS 840 for effects of drawing too much airflow into wrong place)

The case would've been my perfect choice were it not for this fact.

EsaT said:
I did that hole to motherboard tray for changing CPU HSF and if you don't have angle grinder make sure you have plenty of cutting wheels for Dremel/whatever you have, especially basic cutting wheels are eaten by that aluminum alloy probably as well as by steel.

Luckily I have a friend with a CNC machine!

So I suppose what I'm really asking is. Is there any real world proof to suggest there is a Lian li case which performs better in air cooling your components than the antec twelve hundred?

(Other than the immensely expensive TYR-X2000)

lunarwolf · 1 Dec 2008 at 16:14

b.cummins said:
So I suppose what I'm really asking is. Is there any real world proof to suggest there is a Lian li case which performs better in air cooling your components than the antec twelve hundred?

why have you seen any reviews that demonstrate the antec 1200 outperforms the Lian Li?

PS at the end of the day it's a question of budget and personal preference - they all have good cooling. but seeing that you have tj07, i would assume you would expect similar quality finish from a Lian Li since Antec is cheap plastic feel. also lian li has many accessories you can add for added gpu cooling, window panel, etc...
http://www.lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/pro...211&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=61&g=spec
http://lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product04.php?cl_index=2&sc_index=34&ss_index=83