So it goes . . .
- Thread starter LockyOK
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In no way would I suggest that Britain invented terrorism or the deliberate targeting of civilians, any more than I believe that the Syrians invented the"Barrel Bomb". Man has been contaminating water and food for millennia.
My point is that we recently recalled the death fifty years ago of Winston "I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas" Churchill who must have been happy (in advance) of the firebombing of Dresden and was an enthusiastic advocate of fairly extreme warfare. Last year we had a fair amount of jingoistic posturing about the "Great" War, there was a tendency to gloss over the fact that the Germans, French, Belgians and many others also suffered at the whim of a bunch of inbred lunatics. This is likely to continue for another three or four years. Every year we get reminded of the Holocaust - but consistently fail to learn anything from any of these "Remembrances".
As someone has pointed over, Dresden was a very long time ago and anyhow the Germans started it and they (and the Japanese) were much worse than we were so we have every right to feel superior and justified in prosecuting wars around the world - because we are the "Good Guys" . . . although it is perhaps good to note that we no longer believe that we have some Celestial Fairy on our side?
Incidentally, in response to an early poster, if you want to get a quick insight into Dresden, Wikipedia is a handy start point. I would also recommend "Slaughterhouse Five" by Kurt Vonnegut which is a damned good read. "Bomber" by Len Deighton is also worth reading although it doesn't necessarily refer to Dresden.
As I say, yet another great learning opportunity which will doubtless be ignored on the basis that we (and our allies of the particular moment) are the "Good Guys".
My point is that we recently recalled the death fifty years ago of Winston "I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas" Churchill who must have been happy (in advance) of the firebombing of Dresden and was an enthusiastic advocate of fairly extreme warfare. Last year we had a fair amount of jingoistic posturing about the "Great" War, there was a tendency to gloss over the fact that the Germans, French, Belgians and many others also suffered at the whim of a bunch of inbred lunatics. This is likely to continue for another three or four years. Every year we get reminded of the Holocaust - but consistently fail to learn anything from any of these "Remembrances".
As someone has pointed over, Dresden was a very long time ago and anyhow the Germans started it and they (and the Japanese) were much worse than we were so we have every right to feel superior and justified in prosecuting wars around the world - because we are the "Good Guys" . . . although it is perhaps good to note that we no longer believe that we have some Celestial Fairy on our side?
Incidentally, in response to an early poster, if you want to get a quick insight into Dresden, Wikipedia is a handy start point. I would also recommend "Slaughterhouse Five" by Kurt Vonnegut which is a damned good read. "Bomber" by Len Deighton is also worth reading although it doesn't necessarily refer to Dresden.
As I say, yet another great learning opportunity which will doubtless be ignored on the basis that we (and our allies of the particular moment) are the "Good Guys".
Those are fair comments. Britain, France, Germany and Italy are now allies although as you suggest, when one hears the ravings of the Tory Eurosceptics and sees the rise of UKIP it is hard to believe.
I can't claim to have spoken to many (or indeed any) veterans of World War II about their feelings in relation to Germany or Germans. However, I have in the past heard people say that buying any German or Japanese goods is treachery.
As it happens, the Allies did learn something from the disastrous Treaty of Versailles that ended World War I and made strenuous efforts to rebuild Germany (Marshall Plan) and Japan along less warlike lines; both countries now have fairly strong anti-militaristic attitudes although that seems to be waning.
What concerns me is that we still seem regularly to see fairly vicious minor wars around the world and Britain is all too often involved in one way or another in these conflicts. In the case of Britain there usually seems to be a compelling political or commercial justification.
We could for instance probably bring much more economic pressure to bear on Russia over Ukraine but it would be somewhat uncomfortable and it is after all "a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing".
It also saddens me that what little is left of a manufacturing industry in the UK seems to be overly preoccupied with devising new ways of killing people and then selling the product on to pretty much anyone.
Ah, so . . .
Millions of Jews were rounded up and shipped off to God knows where to be exterminated and nobody noticed . . . interesting . . .
Meanwhile, many Germans shared your pathological hatred of Communists and volunteered to join up to invade Poland, Belgium, France, Holland, etc. whilst forming an alliance with Russia?
Mankind really hasn't learned enough from the various wars of the past and so, no, we shouldn't forget the horrors of war or other dark chapters in our history (e.g. the endless barbarous conflicts between Catholics and various flavours of Protestant). I'm not talking about blame, I'm talking about trying to avoid "dark chapters" of the future.
As to not having been conceived in the 1940s, none of us had been conceived at the birth of Judaism / Christianity / Islam and I would agree that it would probably be a damned good thing if we were to forget those thoroughly distorted / fabricated / biased views on how we should lead our lives for the greater glory of some imaginary celestial fairy.
Yes, it does.
You suggested that "Dresden is often used by Nazi apologists as a way of minimizing the crimes of the Nazis and Hitler". The firebombing of Dresden took place between February 13th and 15th 1945. The crimes of the Nazis and Hitler began in the 1930s.
Only a complete idiot (e.g. David Irving) or you would suggest that Dresden had anything to do with minimising the crimes of the Nazis and/or Hitler - perhaps you meant to use the term "complete idiots" rather than "Nazi apologists"
I was under the impression that Churchill favoured offering the Jews a homeland in Uganda?Churchill a Zionist????? Whoever said that needs to read up on Churchill when he was Colonial Secretary.
What I do find rather hard to comprehend is the idea that Churchill had not noticed the disappearance of millions of people in Occupied Europe?
Perhaps the ironically named Intelligence Services were no better in the 1930s/40s than in the run-up to the Argentinian invasion of the Falklands or the imaginary WMDs in Iraq?
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