Society's view on computers & the internet.

[mattyjim123]

I was doing the norm of sitting in front of the telly, watching some crappy reality show, laptop in lap, clicking that stumble button over, and over again. When I stumbled upon this blog post. (hopefully it wont be removed for some reason or another).

http://coding2learn.org/blog/2013/07/29/kids-cant-use-computers/

Please just take 10 minutes or so to read it. Its a really interesting post in my opinion.

It reminded me about how strongly against Internet censorship I am, and people feeling that the internet is a hostile environment, because they can't use common sense when using the web.

The thing that really gets me going is where people have the idea that the Internet is a nasty, dangerous place that gives people access to see who you are, and encroach on your life. The view that it is a horrible place because of internet bullies, paedophiles and cyber criminals. Ans sadly, a view that my mother has.

She says, and I can't help but feel that many other people have the same view, that the Internet is bad because of the porn sites, because children are lured into paedophilic traps, and because people have bank account details, and identities stolen. She agrees with "Internet censorship".

I, however, could not agree less. I can understand why people have this view, and why people are scared of the internet, because they don't understand how to use it properly. I believe that internet censorship is in no way an answer to the problems that society sees regarding the internet. (The teenage suicides, the cyber criminal victims, etc.) I feel that the problem lies with the common sense that people lack when it comes to the internet. Its not up to the websites, the government or any body else for that matter to stop these things happening, but for people to be educated with common sense, most of which is already present with other aspects in life.
For example, a view that people have is that children are defenceless innocent creatures when it comes to talking to a paedophile online. Would the same rules for walking down the street not apply? You educate your son or daughter, not to talk to strangers, right? Why does that not apply to the internet? Is it not up to the parents, the schools, to educate the children that it applies online as well?
Another great example is the one where people feel that it is easy for people to steal their details for bank accounts etc. It is when you let them have it!! Why don't people realise not to give away their personal details online? Don't the same rules apply when it comes to using the telephone?! You don't give any old joe your card details do you? So why do people do it online?

Summarising the whole thing: As the internet and computers become more and more a part of every day life, people need to treat using the internet with the common sense and life lessons that apply to other aspects of their life. Simple things.

It is not the tool that needs to be changed, but the user to be educated on how to use the tool.

I could have carried on, but its late, I have school in the morning. One question I do have for myself though: Why the hell didn't I use this as a subject for my GCSE English essay?!


I would love to hear your thoughts. Be them agreeing with me, or calling me an idiot, go ahead! That's what the forums are for!

 

[bitslice]

Your post's content and the link provided do not appear to be closely linked

which issue did you want to discuss again?

 

[mattyjim123]

That's a good point actually, I somewhat trailed off and started talking about something completely different. What I want to discuss is why does society, in my opinion it is typically the older generation, but not always, feel that the internet is a hostile environment. And why does the government feel they need to censor some parts of the internet. Also why do we see such sites as ask.fm being criticised for people being bullied on the website, when they can just use common sense, and close it? etc etc.

Basically, why do people not apply common sense when using the internet?

Edit: I've edited the post now, hopefully its a bit clearer as to what I'm wanting to discuss.

 

[RDM]

Speaking as someone currently training to be a Computing/ICT teacher I found that blog to be pretty damming of the man himself rather than the people he was denigrating. He seems to be a teacher not willing to teach anyone, he just fixed problems and handed back the machine with an air of superiority.

AS to the rest of your post, I tend to see the internet as just another thing that is part of the world. A very important thing no doubt, but still just a thing. It doesn't have a special exemption due to it being "online" therefore if I accept that governments need to, at times, legislate and regulate the real world that would also include the internet.

 

[bitslice]

Also why do we see such sites as ask.fm being criticised for people being bullied on the website, when they can just use common sense, and close it?

I suspect people felt they owned their little place on that site, so when bullied felt they had no where else to go?
If you know everyone is talking about you then it's natural to go there and read what has been said, then possibly reply, hence being sucked back into it all.


Old people stuggle with the concept of interfacing, we used to talk, now we have memes, the methods of communicating are just so diverse now.

The government does what the Daily Mail says to do, this makes little sense.
Politics is jumping around between issues that attract attention so it looks like you are doing something. In an office, carry a wad of paper and talk loudly, same concept

 

[mattyjim123]

Speaking as someone currently training to be a Computing/ICT teacher I found that blog to be pretty damming of the man himself rather than the people he was denigrating. He seems to be a teacher not willing to teach anyone, he just fixed problems and handed back the machine with an air of superiority.

AS to the rest of your post, I tend to see the internet as just another thing that is part of the world. A very important thing no doubt, but still just a thing. It doesn't have a special exemption due to it being "online" therefore if I accept that governments need to, at times, legislate and regulate the real world that would also include the internet.

I agree with your first point, that he was somewhat looking down on the lady, which I didn't really like, but I still agree with most of what he has to say.

It is another thing that is part of the world, and yes, laws are needed to stop such thing as cyber crime. But why, if it is not just another thing in the world, do people not use as much common sense? I don't feel the government should have to censor, legislate and hold websites like ask.fm to blame for their users actions, for example. This past year there's been a few cases of a teenager being bullied on a websites such as ask.fm, where eventually they turn to self harm, and suicide. Why doesn't the teenager, or parent, remove their account? Isn't that a simple solution?

 

[mattyjim123]

If you know everyone is talking about you then it's natural to go there and read what has been said, then possibly reply, hence being sucked back into it all.

I would agree, that that is the natural reaction, but isn't it up to the parents to talk to the child, maybe get a councillor. I don't really know much about mental health issues, or self esteem issues such as what may be behind it, so I'm not going to try and act like I do.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

They'd better not censor the internet. How else will I groom children, learn how to make bombs, be a racist asshat, spout my ill-informed drivel on social network parasites, and run up huge debts on my parents credit card for apps that I shouldn't be using because I'm 6 years old

What about my freedoms? Thanks Obama!!! (if that even is your real name)

 

[deanolfc]

They watch state controlled news.

 

[mattyjim123]

They'd better not censor the internet. How else will I groom children, learn how to make bombs, be a racist asshat, spout my ill-informed drivel on social network parasites, and run up huge debts on my parents credit card for apps that I shouldn't be using because I'm 6 years old

What about my freedoms? Thanks Obama!!! (if that even is your real name)

I may seem a little stupid here, but I genuinely can't tell whether you're for or against internet censorship

 

[gropingmantis]

I see this from both sides.

On the one hand the guy is right and people treat computers like they treat cars, "Herp Derp, I dun gon on the internetz and now its broked plz fix mr nerd man" which with cars is ok because you need to prove you can at least safely use one before you are allowed one and you have to have your hardware (the car) checked annually to ensure it is in good working condition. So the analogy is less reasonable as its sort of to not know how a car works as there are laws that limit the amount of damage it is possible to do (imagine if there was no driving test or MoT).
We should be encouraging kids (and adults) to learn how computers work and how to be safe online because computing cant afford to end up in the same situation as cars are now. Computer Licences? Annual hardware tests? Speed limits? Road signs? ok so the last two are car specific but imagine computing with more legislation to restrict what can be done.

On the other hand though I see groups of programmers and technicians pretty much going out of their way to maintain this aura of mystery around what they do. I'll admit that I (as a software engineer) am terrible for it, "Well if you cant use command line tools then you shouldnt be using my program" etc etc. The trouble is that all this has done is make computing swing the other way so now it is accessible to everyone! It used to be that programmers and technicians were revered. Yes they were massive nerds and mostly totally socially inept, but they were paid stupid amounts of money because they were the only ones who knew how to maintain the mainframes or develop new programs. Now we get paid less money and told to fix things that should never be broken because totally inept people are allowed to use systems they refuse to even attempt to understand.

Kick MS out of schools. Roll out Linux. Save money. Become better people. ???. Profit.

 

[mattyjim123]

I see this from both sides.
Kick MS out of schools. Roll out Linux. Save money. Become better people. ???. Profit.

Haha amen to that! But if they change over the kids will be like "Whers da intirnet explorar?!?"

 

[RDM]

I agree with your first point, that he was somewhat looking down on the lady, which I didn't really like, but I still agree with most of what he has to say.

Considering his poor attitude towards teaching I struggle to take the rest of what he says seriously. I certainly wouldn't recommend his blog to any of my follow students with that sort of attitude towards people.

It is another thing that is part of the world, and yes, laws are needed to stop such thing as cyber crime. But why, if it is not just another thing in the world, do people not use as much common sense? I don't feel the government should have to censor, legislate and hold websites like ask.fm to blame for their users actions, for example. This past year there's been a few cases of a teenager being bullied on a websites such as ask.fm, where eventually they turn to self harm, and suicide. Why doesn't the teenager, or parent, remove their account? Isn't that a simple solution?

The government didn't do anything to make ask.fm change their policies, public opinion did. The "simple solution" pretty much ignores the very complex issues behind bullying, self harm and suicide. Effectively you are suggesting that social exclusion is the answer to be bullied, it really isn't and will more than likely lead to even more problems.

Kick MS out of schools. Roll out Linux. Save money. Become better people. ???. Profit.

It really wouldn't save money. Decent Linux support costs an awful lot more than decent Windows support.

 

[mattyjim123]

Effectively you are suggesting that social exclusion is the answer to be bullied, it really isn't and will more than likely lead to even more problems.

I'm not suggesting that at all, what I'm saying is that surely, in the same way that if somebody were to be getting bullied and the school do nothing about it, which is what I've seen in many instances, it's up to the parents, or friends etc to give that person help. I fail to see how trying to help somebody seek psychiatric help, is socially excluding them.

 

[starfighter]

While I agree that children should be educated about the dangers of the Internet, just like they should about the world in general, I am not against government intervention as long as it helps. People go on about freedom but it isn't important, what matters is that people remain safe. However I draw the line at monitoring everyone usage, not because of privacy but because it costs too much money. I think there are better ways my tax dollars can be spent.

 

[Devrij]

While I agree that children should be educated about the dangers of the Internet, just like they should about the world in general, I am not against government intervention as long as it helps. People go on about freedom but it isn't important, what matters is that people remain safe.

I strongly disagree with that statement. Safety at the expense of freedom is not safety. Quis custodes custodient?

 

[FoxEye]

Speaking as someone currently training to be a Computing/ICT teacher I found that blog to be pretty damming of the man himself rather than the people he was denigrating. He seems to be a teacher not willing to teach anyone, he just fixed problems and handed back the machine with an air of superiority.

Disagree entirely. He was simply telling the truth. He hit the nail square on the head pretty much every time. And he actually has a very good concluding point.

If you spend a lot of time helping people with IT problems (I do - it's my job), you find that most people don't want to know how any of it works. This is mostly understandable - they have their own workload and IT problems are an unwanted interruption to their real work.

I don't think he was being critical of the woman's lack of IT know-how, just her attitude. He was berating our collective lack of desire to understand the tools we use, and a modern school and work environment which does not encourage learning about *real* IT.

All in all the blog was excellent, and got me thinking. I'm going to give the desktop PC I was working on for my nephew back to him - still 'broken' And then guide him as he fixes it himself

AS to the rest of your post, I tend to see the internet as just another thing that is part of the world. A very important thing no doubt, but still just a thing. It doesn't have a special exemption due to it being "online" therefore if I accept that governments need to, at times, legislate and regulate the real world that would also include the internet.

The problem isn't the porn block that the govt have considered. The problem isn't the surveillance - it's what they're going to do with that data. How it will help them control the population.

From reading another blog (linked in the first), it seems that, amongst other things, social workers will see if potential adoption candidates have opted in to the porn block, and will use that data to judge if a candidate is fit to adopt children.

This govt doesn't just want data... they want the control that data can help them achieve. I don't care if they think they're making the world a safe place. All I see is a govt attempting to remove our free will, via the back door.

 

[Devrij]

Well put, Fox

 

[starfighter]

I strongly disagree with that statement. Safety at the expense of freedom is not safety. Quis custodes custodient?

People go on about freedom, especially Americans, but why does it really matter, for example it's the law to wear a seat belt, so we have lost our freedom not to wear a seat belt, all that does is force people to make the right choice and wear a seat belt. As long as it is for the best I don't see the problem.

 

[RDM]

I'm not suggesting that at all, what I'm saying is that surely, in the same way that if somebody were to be getting bullied and the school do nothing about it, which is what I've seen in many instances, it's up to the parents, or friends etc to give that person help. I fail to see how trying to help somebody seek psychiatric help, is socially excluding them.

Your solution to being bullied on Ask.fm was not "Seek psychiatric help" but "stop logging on to ask.fm". That isn't really a solution as it effectively excludes someone from a social resource because they are being bullied. The fault doesn't really lie with them, surely the "common sense" bit should actually lie with the people doing the bullying? Why do they not have to exercise it whilst the victim does? We shouldn't really be getting to the place where someone needs to seek psychiatric help for being bullied, we should be stopping the bullying.

Disagree entirely. He was simply telling the truth. He hit the nail square on the head pretty much every time. And he actually has a very good concluding point.

You might have a point if he was just an IT tech, but he isn't, he is allegedly an IT teacher, yet he seems to be unwilling to teach. He even admits doing it with his own family! He is ideally placed to deal with the ignorance he feels exists and yet just fixes problems whilst crowing about how morally superior he is.

It may be an amusing IT tech blog, but as an IT teaching blog it is pretty awful.

From reading another blog (linked in the first), it seems that, amongst other things, social workers will see if potential adoption candidates have opted in to the porn block, and will use that data to judge if a candidate is fit to adopt children.

Is that officially the case or just an imagined assumption? What legislation allows the Social Services to request such information from the ISPs?