Some hard won lessons about MOBO purchases

BaronVonDuncs

BaronVonDuncs

BaronVonDuncs

Associate
Joined
14 Oct 2009
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191
Location
Southampton UK
Well I have had a terrible purchasing experience in fact I would say the worst I have ever had in buying computer components.

I purchased an Asus Maximus VII Formula Motherboard from a well known competitor (in Bolton) of OCUK (yes your right that was my first mistake!). I got the board and installed everything and kept getting a message that a new CPU had been installed push F1 for settings, no matter what I did the message always came back. After a number of attempts at remedies and a very careful inspection of the CPU and the socket under my 4X day light magnifying lamp I concluded the board was defective and contacted the retailer for an RMA. This was 2 days after receipt of the board. It took 4 more days for a response and that was to ask me to produce photos of the board and socket. I baulked at this and asked again for an RMA number. I got one and returned the item immediately. Today my RMA has been rejected on the basis that there is socket damage. I have yet to see what damage but I will be asking for a photo. Having been installing CPU's for around the last 20 years and having never damaged a socket or processor in all that time its of course likely that somehow I did this time.

As it is I had already read around a number of forums and concluded that this outcome was extremely likely as it seems to be the go to policy of the retailer in question when dealing with RMA requests on motherboards. I had actually said to my Mum days ago that they would reject it on the basis of damage and lo and behold that's what has happened. As it is I had in fact already purchased an identical replacement board from OCUK on the basis that I did not expect to get a successful RMA from the other retailer and needed a replacement immediately to get my system back up and running. This board by the way worked perfectly first time and somehow I managed to install it without doing any damage to the socket!

Anyway this is not intended to be a whinge but rather to offer advice to others from my expensive experience. Firstly I would say on receipt of a motherboard it should be very closely inspected immediately it leaves the box and photographs taken of its condition. Secondly if a fault becomes evident then prior to any RMA it should again be inspected and photographs taken of its physical condition. I really missed a trick here as I didn't take any photos of it prior to its return so I can't prove one way or another if it was damaged when it left me. I would say this is absolutely essential in any RMA of a motherboard, be prepared to prove by way of photos the condition of the board on its arrival and prior to any return.

Secondly in dealing with this particular retailer it is clear that in the case of motherboards regardless of any defect it is highly likely that damage will be found by their testers and any return rejected. Thus the installation insurance (which I would view as nonsense most of the time) is actually an essential purchase in the case of motherboards. It is probably the only way you will recover any money in the event your board has a defect. The bottom line is that in dealing with this particular retailer if your motherboard has any kind of defect then it is very unlikely that you will be able to successfully RMA it and get a replacement or refund. I would be interested to hear from anyone whose experience differs and has been able to successfully RMA a motherboard to this particular retailer.

I had a quick look through Quicken tonight and by my reckoning over the last couple of years I have spent around £4100 with this particular retailer. Its not a huge amount but its actually a lot for me as I am disabled and on a pretty low income. In fact my computer makes up a large proportion of my spending because it's so central to my day to day existence. I very rarely leave my house and the life I lead through the computer is a godsend.

I hope that others can learn from my bad experience and have a better outcome than me.
 
It is extremely easy to damage the socket pins on a Intel board. I have done it myself in the past but fixed it with a magnifying glass and a pair of fine tweezers.

I really don't understand why people buy from that outfit and definately can't see why they win awards. They are not the cheapest and their delivery is expensive. As you have now found out, their customer service is abysmal and your best bet is to keep on at them although if the socket is indeed damaged I don't think you will get anywhere. I had a problem with them years ago when the chipset failed on a MSI board. Even though the board was only a couple of months old I had to fight tooth and nail to get a new replacement. The first board they sent me was in a filthy state with no accessories and there was no way I was going to accept it. It took me several weeks of argueing to get a brand new replacement.
 
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Well further to this saga here is a photo they have sent me of the 'damage'.

IMG_1552.jpg


It consists of one bent pin in the very far corner of the socket. I did inspect the socket on receipt and after I had problems I checked it again and I never noticed any damage but the damage in this instance is so small and positioned in such a way I think its not unreasonable for me the layman to not have seen it. If I did the damage how exactly did I bend one single pin in the corner and in such a way as to bend it right over and inside the socket so that it sits almost flat? I supposedly did this but didn't damage any other surrounding pins?

Prior to seeing this picture I was going through a lot of self doubt that I may have accidentally damaged the socket although I couldn't imagine when but now having seen the actual damage my instinct is that this was a pre existing fault that was on the board at the time I received it.

Their offer to me is that subject to signing a waiver that I accept no guarantee and that I have no warranty as its damaged they will attempt a repair and then if successful process it for replacement or refund. If they are unsuccessful in repairing it I assume I am stuffed if I sign such a waiver.

My other concern is that by signing such a waiver I implicitly accept that I damaged the board which having now seen the damage I just don't believe I did. Under the Sales of Goods Act then within the first 6 months it is for the seller to prove that any fault complained of did not exist at the time of sale. If I accept that I damaged this board then I give up my rights under the Sales of Goods Act and effectively prove for them that the damage did not exist at the time of sale because I admit to having caused it.

Its really tough because ultimately I just want to get back as much money as I can and move on and never do business with them again and the fig leaf they have held out that repair can lead to a potential refund/replacement is tempting but they are asking me to effectively give up my statutory rights as a consequence of this offer and that really bothers me. I would also severely question the legality of them pressuring customers in this manner to implicitly give up statutory rights.

Time to read the legislation again I guess!
 
I have dealt several times, both by mail order and in person, with that noted retailer and had no issues with either refunds or returns etc. In fact I have found them most helpful and apologetic when things have gone wrong. They even changed a Corsair PSU that blew up, and was a couple of years old, over the counter without the need to return it to Corsair first.
Their added installation damage insurance is around £3 for a motherboard and for something costing as much as what you paid might be worth considering, as you have noted.

I have damaged a Gigabyte Z77 boards socket (so very easy to do and I did not realise at first that I had even damaged it. The damage occurred as I was replacing the protective cap back onto the socket whilst preparing my case for its installation..! I bought from OCUK and they told me that there was nothing that they could do as I have caused the damage so I decided to ask Gigabyte what they could offer, in the way of a repair. What they did was amazing...

They paid for a courier to collect my board and then they repaired it and then shipped it back to me for free...!!

As I have noted before I have tended to steer towards Gigabyte for most of my hardware and with their UK support and returns I see little reason in buying other brands, especially motherboards.

It must be a difficult situation for many retailers when it comes to motherboards and Intel sockets as so many must get damaged by the end user.

Good luck and don't forget your consumer rights under the SOGA etc.

If you paid by credit card then the credit card company are equally as liable as the retailer, IIRC under the consumer credit act.
 
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Sorry to hear about the problem with the RMA.

The standard procedure is to reject the motherboard RMA when their is socket damage, OcUK or any of the common retailers would be no different, because the motherboard manufacturer in this case Asus would reject the RMA also.
 
If they can't prove the fault was caused by you, then doesn't the sales of good act deem the fault to have been there at time of purchase?

I wouldn't sign any waiver, nor would I accept a repair. Exchange or refund would be my stance.
 
skyripper said:
If they can't prove the fault was caused by you, then doesn't the sales of good act deem the fault to have been there at time of purchase?
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You're right. I had this same issue back in 2009 on a P55 chipset motherboard.

I spoke to Trading Standards/Consumer Direct as I read in the Sales Act that in the first 6 months of a purchase if the damage cannot be proven to be done by the end user then a warranty claim still exists.

Finally after stating this & quoting the Trading Standards Reference number to the retailer in question, I got a call from them saying they would offer a refurbished Asus P7P55D worth £113, my original motherboard cost £138 so I refused this & asked if they would agree if I could purchase a brand new Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 for (£75ish) around 50% of its purchase value to which after another day they rang back & agreed.
 
skyripper said:
If they can't prove the fault was caused by you, then doesn't the sales of good act deem the fault to have been there at time of purchase?

I wouldn't sign any waiver, nor would I accept a repair. Exchange or refund would be my stance.
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Yes the relevant legislation is The Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 section 48A (3) which amended the Sales of Goods Act:

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.​

The assumption is that any fault was in existence at the time of delivery unless the seller can prove that:

(4) Subsection (3) above does not apply if—
(a) it is established that the goods did so conform at that date;
(b) its application is incompatible with the nature of the goods or the nature of the lack of conformity.​

It is for the seller to establish that the goods did conform with the statute at the time of delivery namely were fit for purpose or that the nature of the lack of conformity is such that section (3) does not apply, lack of conformity comes from European legislation but essentially it means something that is of such a nature that its incompatible with holding that the goods were in conformity at the time of delivery, so examples would be accidental damage, or misuse of the goods. Again however my reading of this is that the seller must prove that the nature of the lack of conformity is down to the actions of the buyer.

My concern is that the blanket approach to motherboards taken by this retailer and it would seem others as well is that an assumption is being made that no motherboard is ever delivered damaged and thus any damage found must be assumed to be the consequence of the buyers actions. This assumption is not being supported by evidence and is being applied in a blanket fashion not on a case by case basis and that is contrary to the spirit and letter of the legislation. It is open for the seller to argue that a buyer has damaged a good and thus the nature of its lack of conformity is not compatible with the application of the 6 month rule but I would suggest that this should be done based on an assessment of the individual circumstances of the good in question and the nature of the lack of conformity judged on a case by case basis. This is not what is happening rather a blanket policy is being applied to motherboards specifically based on various unsubstantiated assumptions. This strikes me as contrary to the legislation as I read it.
 
Nelly said:
You're right. I had this same issue back in 2009 on a P55 chipset motherboard.

I spoke to Trading Standards/Consumer Direct as I read in the Sales Act that in the first 6 months of a purchase if the damage cannot be proven to be done by the end user then a warranty claim still exists.

Finally after stating this & quoting the Trading Standards Reference number to the retailer in question, I got a call from them saying they would offer a refurbished Asus P7P55D worth £113, my original motherboard cost £138 so I refused this & asked if they would agree if I could purchase a brand new Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD4 for (£75ish) around 50% of its purchase value to which after another day they rang back & agreed.
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It seems that this kind of thing has been made harder. Thanks to our wonderful coalition government and its protection of the little man Consumer Direct has been closed down, the Office of Fair Trading has also been closed. The entire function of consumer protection is now in the hands of the Citizens Advice Bureau. I have already checked and to file a complaint with Trading Standards in Bolton you have to go through the CAB who if they deem it worthy can refer your complaint on to the relevant Trading Standards Authority. The other port of call is the Retail Ombudsman:

http://www.theretailombudsman.org.uk/

In order to file a complaint with the ombudsman though you need to have a final letter of resolution rejecting your claim from the retailer or wait for 8 weeks.

The other option of course is to go to the small claims court. This ones not really an option for me. As I am disabled the travel and physical pressures involved would be I think more than I could mentally and physically manage so whilst I actually think a number of strong arguments exist that could be persuasive in court its just not a realistic option for me to take.
 
The retailer you are talking about have the worst customer service I have ever experienced from any company. Suck it up like I have in the past and don't buy from them again. I have a trade account with them for work with over £20,000 spend a year, they still treated me like trash, their loss.
 
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I stop using them after a problem with a motherboard about 2 years back. Got an a agreed refund back to my C/C no problem Confirmed Emails RMA No. etc . had to wait 14 day for the refund never got it. After 6 Emails over a period of 4 weeks with we will look into it and sort out the issue with your refund still nothing ended up have to get the credit card company to do a Charge back. Never again will be buying from them.
 
Well I ended up writing a 13 page letter arguing my legal position and going through the relevant legislation in detail (in case you are wondering I used to be a practising Barrister but I am retired for health reasons nowadays).

Just got an email from the trader in question telling me a full refund has been authorised and will be paid in the next 3 working days. I will wait to see if its actually paid before I rejoice too loud but it seems like it may have been resolved successfully.

Thanks for all your comments guys.
 
BaronVonDuncs said:
Well I ended up writing a 13 page letter arguing my legal position and going through the relevant legislation in detail (in case you are wondering I used to be a practising Barrister but I am retired for health reasons nowadays).

Just got an email from the trader in question telling me a full refund has been authorised and will be paid in the next 3 working days. I will wait to see if its actually paid before I rejoice too loud but it seems like it may have been resolved successfully.

Thanks for all your comments guys.
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That's pretty awesome, well done. I've read on Hexus numerous times over the years people in the same situation who have totally lost out, but you have defied those odds.

Makes you wonder if those people actually had a leg to stand on afterall, by the sounds of it they did, they just didn't take it far enough. Being a retired Barrister has it's advantages I guess.

You could probally make a small fortune by looking at small claims, and writing the relevent documents for them.
 
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What place is it? I'd like to know so I nor any friends/family use said place.

I myself have always used OCUK and frankly always will, the customer service is second to none.

From a quick google search, its Scan - Bolton branch right?
 
An update.

I got a phone call from the retailers representative today. There was some concern about the accuracy of my previous posts but I think after a lengthy discussion about it all we came to a mutually acceptable conclusion and they have undertaken to refund the value of the motherboard. In the light of a degree of uncertainty around the issues we agreed not to pursue the issue of the return postage.

I would say I did appreciate that the retailer took the time to call me in person and whilst clearly we still have a few issues of difference between us broadly an amicable solution has been found. So whilst its not been an ideal purchasing experience for me it is fair to say that the retailer has made some effort to deal with my concerns and that is to be commended.
 
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