Poll: Some proposals to sort out Formula One

Should JRS replace Max Mosley as FIA President?

  • Yes

    Votes: 139 79.9%
  • No

    Votes: 35 20.1%

  • Total voters
    174

JRS

JRS

Soldato
Joined
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Burton-on-Trent
I was going to put this in the China race thread, but decided to make it separate.

Dad and I got to talking about the race today in the pub this lunchtime. Usually produces some interesting ideas about how they could improve the show, and today was no exception. Some sensible, some silly, I'll leave you to make your minds up about which side they fall on.

1) Car construction rules - don't make the damned things standard. You want spec-racing? Go watch A1GP. Though, since they couldn't rustle up a full grid for the opening event I think we can take it as read that standard cars might not be the way forward. Similarly, no standard engines. That's just silly and it isn't Formula One.

Give the teams some real freedom. In the past, F1 has always punished the innovators in the end by banning the stuff that they come up with. Four wheel drive, ground effect, traction control, active suspension, fully automatic gearchange, ABS, launch control....all banned. Why should the manufacturers stick around if they can't use F1 to invent some cool ****? Why should the garagistes stick around if they can't use some spark of ingenuity to beat up on the big boys?

2) Fuel tank sizes. I've always said that they should never have brought back refuelling in '94 - it adds nothing except danger and the chance that something that is 100% out of your control will ruin your race. Take away refuelling, and you bring back some different race strategies that have been lost for quite some time.

Alternatively - make the tanks even smaller, so that teams will generally have to stop four or five times a race. If you can make your car frugal in order to go for the race on four tanks of fuel then you've just saved yourself the best part of 20 seconds. Or you can make your car very powerful and very fast but need to stop five or six times to refuel. Your call.

3) Qualifying. For the love of God, bring back the old style of qually. Two days, each with a twelve lap session. Cars running on the smell of an oily rag, i.e. no qualifying on race fuel levels. Fastest driver and car combo takes pole, rather than the one who is going to stop earlier than everyone else in the race.

No-one got penalised for blocking in qualifying back then. When Mansell got horrendously baulked by Olivier Grouillard, he had a quick gripe about it and then got on with his life. And the format allowed for stuff like all those wonderful qualifying laps that Senna used to turn in while everyone else looked on in wonder.

4) Pit stops need work. Whichever way you go - no refuelling or smaller tanks - they need serious work. Dad came up with an idea that had us both laughing - instead of each team having a pitbox, have just one. A single spot where cars can get tyres and fuel, staffed by track employees or a team that goes to each race. You'd have people queuing, sure. But it'd be much more fun to watch than the current system!

If you didn't do that, and retained pit boxes for each team, then make pitting more of a penalty. Reduce the maximum speed a good chunk, make the wheels held on with five nuts rather than just one in the centre (increases the chance that you'll get one wrong). Some drivers will try and make tyres last so they don't have to change them as often. Others will go like a bat out of hell and take the risk of a fumbled stop.

5) Bring back turbocharging. Adds another dimension - managing the boost. You can leave it with the wick turned right up, but you'll shorten the life of your car and use a lot more fuel. Or you can turn it down a bit, save fuel and use maximum boost only when you need to clear somebody.

Of course, turbocharging wouldn't be compulsory. Rather, it would be like the old equivalence formula - which was 3.0 litre N/A engines or 1.5l blown engines from '66 right up to the end of the turbo era. The turbo cars used more fuel and ate their tyres quicker, but they were more powerful. You could build a turbocharged car and deal with the fact that you'd have to make more stops (see #4 for how that would affect things) or you could build a non-turbo car, need less fuel and less tyre changes but be a bit down on power. Again....lets see some variance in the grid!

6) It should be illegal to be Max Mosley.

7) Seriously. Max has to go.

8) The race stewards should be a group that goes to each race in the calendar. They should have to explain, in detail and in public, every decision they take against a driver. Should cut down on a lot of the problems we've had this year with strange decisions and no explanation for them.

9) Customer cars should be allowed, but the teams wouldn't be eligible for the constructors championship.

10) The points system needs a damned good overhaul. There needs to be more incentive to take a risk and overtake someone rather than settle for a point or two less. 20-16-13-10-7-4-2-1 could work in that respect.

Also - one point for pole, one point for fastest lap of the race, one point for leading a lap and one point for leading the most laps. At least that way a driver who got pole, led from the off, got all the way to about three laps from home before someone stacked into him or the car broke would get at least something for having been the best on the day. Constructors points wouldn't include these bonuses, they would just go on the main race points - so if the driver was doing well before the car let him down, he might get some bonus points, but the car wouldn't since it broke and doesn't deserve any!



Right, that ought to do for now. All complete nonsense, or is there something in that lot?
 
Was starting to be a good read until I got to the bit about pitting. My god, that's a delusional way of looking at it.

White coat with extra long arms for JRS please.

Which one of the two was "delusional"? I said that the first one was more of a laugh than anything, but I think that the rest of it had some merit.

Lose the wings.

All of them.

Balls to that. F1 needs wings, otherwise they're just tooling around in really powerful Formula Ford cars....

No refuelling please.

Like I said - I've been grumbling about refuelling ever since it came back. It has added the sum total of ****-all to F1.

I'm all for two 60 minute sessions of 12 laps but I'm a touch worried about the dry Friday, wet Saturday scenario. Friday qually is unlikely to be televised so there has to be guaranteed action on Saturday. Whether that's simply legislating that all laps must be used or incentivising Saturdays with points I'm not sure.

Good point. You probably would have to make it so that all 12 laps must be done on both days, with grid penalties if you don't complete them (through mechanical faults or operational errors).

A different suggestion to my usual one - limit the number of airguns A1GP style.

Could work. NASCAR, for example, mandates that only two airguns can be 'over the wall' and being used at a time. They change left side tyres first then right side tyres (if it's a four-tyre stop). Would be interesting to see how F1 teams cope with that setup....

Consistency, as we know, is the problem.

Ain't that the truth.....


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Thanks for the poll, by the way. And thank-you to those who have voted for me. The other (currently) 12 of you....your names will go on The List™....:)
 
What is wrong with having quick pit stops and refuelling!?

It encourages "cookie-cutter" strategies - no-one does anything desperately different any more. The races just get broken up into basic sprints between the stops.

To their credit, Schumacher and Ross Brawn used to mix it up on occasion. In 2004, at the French and British GPs most teams stopped a total of six times - three in each. Schumacher stopped four times and twice respectively, and won both. But it would be nice to being some of the old strategy games back, where fuel and tyre management was actually critical.
 
JRS - I'd vote for you as Max's replacement, but what would you bring to the sport? Can you tell us about your particular saxual deviancies and which papers you propose to appear in?

My sexual deviances range far and wide. But it's alright - no Nazi sadomasochistic connotations are involved. As for which papers I shall appear in, that rather depends on which one is willing to pay for the story.

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14 of you now who refuse to recognise my greatness. You will be coded for deletion once the new order is in place.
 
I don't know about ****-all, the amusement factor of the keystone cops from Ferrari in Singapore was something at least :p

:)

But seriously that's it. Some comedy screw-ups, a few fires (including one very bad one for 'Jos the Boss' in '94) and a few completely ruined races due to malfunctioning fuel rigs that didn't get fuel in to the cars. It's added nothing else to the spectacle, and has taken away much more from the racing than it added.
 
11) Fully Manual gearbox - H-style gate and clutch pedal, make 'em work for a living.

Though I do enjoy watching videos of Senna doing banzai pole laps with one hand on the wheel and one on the gearstick, I wouldn't ban semi-auto 'boxes. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing technology - if you can buy a road car with a flappy paddle 'box, then you should be allowed to have one in F1.

Perhaps having a semi-auto gearbox with a lever to change gear - pull back to go up through the gears, push forward to go down. Means that they can still have seamless shift and all that good stuff, but the driver has to take a hand off the wheel to change gear.
 
So you're in favour of traction control and other driver aids then? This could serious impact the number of votes going your way :p

Sure. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport - that means it has to be the pinnacle of racing technology as well. So it needs active suspension, and traction control, and ABS, and all that good stuff.

It's not like it completely ruined the racing the last time all of it was available. 1993, the final year for the high-tech era, saw 22 drivers (out of the 35 who competed in a race) score at least one point. Yes, the year was pretty much dominated by Williams (it took Senna and Schumacher to get any other car to win that year). But imagine how it would be now, with the teams being so much closer to each other and with the technology being somewhat more mature.

I don't think it would harm the spectacle. And the fastest drivers would still be the fastest.


***edit***

Going to go watch my tape of the '93 European GP at Donington. Proof, if ever it was needed, that Senna was an absolute genius. James Allen can bang on about Lewis Hamilton being Senna-esque all he wants....he's wrong :)
 
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I haven’t a got of time to write a full response to this subject, but I will that say that although F1 has massive issues, the championship will be decided in the last race for the second year running – that can only be a good thing.
Has that ever happened in F1 before?

The championship has gone 'down to the wire' on 23 occasions so far. Out of 58. So no, NathanE - not the "vast majority" ;) The first two - '50 and '51 - were both won at the last round. '58 and '59 were. '67 and '68 were. '81, 82, '83 and '84 were. '96, '97, '98 and '99 were. '06 and '07 were, making three-in-a-row for '08 (though '06 was pretty much done before Brazil since Alonso only needed a single point).

Although my rose-tinted specs love ‘old school’ F1, I didn’t enjoy having the championship decided half-way through the season; who benefits from that?

See, I'm funny like that. I couldn't give a toss when the championship is won as long as the best driver won it. Schumacher took the title in 2002 at round 11 (France) - this wasn't a problem, he'd clearly been so far ahead of the field that he almost lapped himself on occasion. Ditto for 2004 - under the old points system (10-6-4-3-2-1) I'm sure he'd have won it a lot earlier than round 14.

Championships only need to be close when the on-track action is a bit sub-par. And I don't think anyone would call some* of the races (read: processions) we've had this year "exciting" or "action packed". Now, if you have a year with great on-track action in every single race AND the title goes down to the wire, then you've cracked it - Formula One is once again the pinnacle of motorsport. What we have right now....just isn't.

1993 was probably the last truly great year. Senna versus Prost, the upcoming Schumacher and Hill, the cars were hugely advanced with a range of different engine designs (V8s, V10s, V12s rather than all just V8s) so the races even sounded more exciting. 22 drivers scored at least one point out of the 35 who entered at least one race.

Then Prost retired. All the high tech stuff that the teams had developed was banned. Ratzenberger and Senna died. Barichello and Wendlinger both took heavy knocks, as did Lehto, Alesi and Montermini. The cars and tracks were butchered, and the old panache of F1 was gone to be replaced with the new safety uber alles era.

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* - reckon I should clarify that, knowing this forum. When I say "some" of the races this year have been poor I mean just that - some of them. Not all of them.
 
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My (albeit hasty) calculations show that (since 1980) 15 championships have been won before the last race, certainly a lot less than 'the majority'.

Sounds about right to me.


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Some interesting suggestions there JRS, i particularly like the points one, thats a bit more like nascar isnt it?

There is a lot of NASCAR in that. Simply because the NASCAR points system encourages drivers to rack up bonus points. Under the pace car, you're near the back and everyone in front of you is pitting? Stay out. Get a lap led before coming in. There's five points for you.

Back when F1 gave a bonus point for the fastest lap, it actually meant something when a driver put in a hot lap near the end of the race. Christ, Mike Hawthorn won his title by racking up points that way!
 
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There's a reason why he is still in F1 and why McLaren are getting a hard time. The dossier, the sex scandal, the apologies, the press digs, it doesnt take a genius to see that Max thinks McLaren are to blame for all his problems.

Sshh. Most folks would rather carry on thinking that the FIA are massively pro-Ferrari, rather than merely anti-McLaren ;)
 
Mostly b) IMO. I still maintain that it could be BMW, or Torro Rosso, or even Honda in some strange parallel universe who benefit from McLaren getting more than their fair share of odd decisions going against them. It just so happens that Ferrari are up there and will always be the first to gain an advantage from Max's possible vendetta right now.

As far as truly questionable calls go, though - how many this year actually have been off? Spa, obviously. China T1, maybe. But the penalty from qually in Malaysia was richly deserved, as was the grid penalty in France for the pitlane muppetry in Canada. The chicane hopping in the race in France was also pretty much on the money - McLaren have been at this game a while now, they ought to have told Hamilton to give the place back.

Still, what's done is done. Hamilton about has this title sewn up bar mechanical gremlins (unlikely) or him completely losing his head (also unlikely).
 
cant see it ever happening

I can, sadly. The economic downturn has given Mosley the excuse to push crap ideas like that onto the sport, and he might just get some of them through.

Like I said in one of the race threads on here - with standard wings, standard floors, standard suspension and standard engines being mooted, Colin Chapman must be turning in his grave.
 
I really don't get the customer car situation. I don't get why it was ever considered a bad thing - given that Max himself was one of the founders of March, who supplied more than a few teams with chassis over the years. I know Williams were whining about it, but given that they started out in this business with - who'da thunk it? - a customer chassis then they probably should have been told to shut the **** up :)
 
TheStig1 said:
- There will be a further meeting between FOTA members in Brazil to determine testing kilometre limits for 2009, and an agreement in principal on the introduction of a standard KERS unit for 2010 or 2011

Interesting....from what I've heard, the FIA - while being quite keen on making the rest of the car standard - weren't overly sold on the idea of standard KERS units.

Max "Yes said:
The FIA therefore intends to keep KERS as a performance differentiator in Formula One and, indeed, increase its importance in 2011.

....snippety snip....

To standardise a new technology which is directly relevant to the biggest single problem confronting road transport - energy efficiency - while allowing continued development in wholly irrelevant areas such as Formula One aerodynamics, is not rational.

Tell me Max, what is it like on the planet you come from?

Aerodynamics in Formula One are "wholly irrelevant" huh? Well **** me sideways - I could have sworn this was ******* MOTOR RACING. Not building Toyota Priuses. Which, I'm pretty sure, also benefit from aero development regarding lowering the drag co-efficient.

And given that this is Formula One, is this not a slightly odd viewpoint? Standardising wings, floors, suspension and engines, that's okay. Standardising an energy recovery unit, and it's all "woah there! That's crazy talk!".
 
This is funny...

Alan Donnelly (one of the stewards appointed my Max Mosley)... his website last year had this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071117023457/http://www.sovereignstrategy.com/clients2.asp

If you look at it today: http://www.sovereignstrategy.com/clients2.asp

It would appear he removed "Ferrari" from his list of clients when he was employed by the FIA :p

Corruption at its finest :)

We already did that in one of the F1 race threads. I argued that there was bog all proof that Donnelly had ever done any work for the Ferrari racing team, since it was just the main firm that was on his old client list. I also pointed out that just because he had done PR work for Ferrari in the past, that didn't mean he still was.

But of course I got shouted down. People were far too interested in paranoid ravings about how this Donnelly character was obviously manipulating the stewards to favour Ferrari. Hey ho.
 
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