Someone educate me about fighting games [or "how to get better at Tekken 7"]

Lysander

Lysander

Lysander

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OK, this is a thread which I didn't think I'd ever make but these things can happen...

A few years ago I got Skullgirls on a whim, enjoyed it for a bit and then thought little of it. Then about two months ago I noticed that Tekken 7 was on sale. I had played Tekken 3 as an undergrad so was a little familiar with the series and was curious to see it. I checked out some gameplay footage on Youtube and in seconds I knew I had to have it.

And oh my God, Tekken 7 is incredible, I love the graphics, the smoothness of movement, the characters. It's almost not like fighting but choreography. That game seems to have had a lot of money pumped into it! The matches are also really intense, especially when you get going [I currently have two characters in green tier, I know that's not that far but it's good for me...].

And then a few days ago I picked up Mortal Kombat X. Mortal Kombat is a game I had always taken the mick out of since I thought it was only played by ASBOs but it's actually really good. I also picked up Street Fighter V on sale but it's really meh and not for me at all [it's like 'Marvel' fighting].

What I need to know is - can anyone give me general advice on how to improve in these games?

Do people actually spend time practising, how do people memorise combos? What is the timing you need on some of these combos since I can't get them all to work. Do you really need frame-per-frame timing? It's almost like playing an instrument.

Any advice at all would be amazing.
 
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If your tekkers isn't good, then you just need to improve your tekkers. This only happens with practice.


"What's tekkers????" I hear you scream at the top of your ASBO voice, I'm glad you asked!

 
I can give you advice on Tekken but it takes time and you have to take it slow.

Conbos are actually the least important thing, just learn a basic one off your main launchers to not leave dmg on the table. It'll work for now and it's the easiest thing to optimise later on.

Pick a character and learn their top 10 moves, the safer the better (under -10f on block is safe) and slowly learn to apply them in combat.

The most important thing is learning when and when not to attack. A lot of beginners actually kill themselves because they can't stop pressing and doing launch punishable moves randomly.
You have to learn to exploit that and make them pay That's where frames come into play. For example:

A single jab is automatically one of your best moves (unless you use Asuka, lol), it's fast, safe and actually +1 on block so you can try continuing your offense and score a CH if your opponent always presses into it. A whopping +8 on hit as well, you can basically do whatever you want and your opponent has to guess.
Same with df1 (down, forward square on PS pad I think), fast, safe, a bit minus on block so you can either try something or sidestep and catch the opponent swinging when you're off-axis - bam, free dmg. It's also your best bet fir checking random crouchers. A lot if moves can set up a sidestep or a single backdash as well.

What you're trying to do is to always be as plus as possible in every scenario and dictate the pace of the match while observing your opponent.

It sounds hard and it is but it'll come as you get a feel for your character.

The rest is character knowledge, timing and employing advanced movement techniques. That will come with time.

Just take every single small thing you learn or recognise as a victory because it is. You don't have to play super-dry in the beginning, with only pokes and movement. It takes a lot of skill and will burn you out. Just experiment but learn why things stop working.
 
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From what I've gathered, work out the top moves for the character and work with them in the beginning, also the Korean Dash is one you might want to learn, I find this fairly difficult to achieve. Also practice against moves you struggled with in a fight using the record function. I'm by no means any good at fighting games, infact I pretty much stink and you'd have to be pretty horrendous to lose to me. I still play them though.

Check out Reddit's /r/Tekken, they have a resources page with lots of good information.
 
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Korean Backdash is best left for later. It's not super hard, I can do it consistently on both sides pretty fast buy the actual problem is learning to use it properly to set up whiffs and stuff. Better to learn it once you understand those concepts and not just backdash yourself into a corner and get smothered with wall pressure:p

It's best used when you're good enough to constantly gauge the distance/move range between you and your opponent and think along the lines of "if I do it now, will the move he tries to catch me with whiff and will I be able to capitalise on that?" Stuff like that.

It's easy to get carried away and use it without purpose, I've been guilty of that myself. There are many other more important things to consider like sidestep cancelling that allows you to get yourself out of a corner while blocking many attacks when executed properly. It's also easier and can be used to pseudo-backdash cancel:p

KBD has to be done cleanly as there's a brief moment when you crouch and can get clipped by stuff.
 
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Spacedeck said:
I suppose it isn't helped that I generally play these games using a fight stick, so certain movements will be a little more difficult to achieve. I still haven't found a character to main though as I'm equally bad with all of them.
Click to expand...

I'm also on stick, it's super fun. I prefer it to pad actually, just need to make sure that your directional inputs are clean in the beginning.

As for character choice, I'd suggest a basic poker like Kazumi as training wheels, she does wonders for your gameplay and can teach you those small offensive and defensive patterns like df1 -> sidestep -> df1 or ss cancel observe the opponent, df1 do nothing etc. Wow, jab check eaten, I'm +8 I can do whatever, wow, my opponent presses into my +8 -> magic 4 CH etc.
Opponent likes to duck -> df1 check and stuff like that. She'll also teach you basic hitconfirms with 1,1,2 which is SUPER good and allows you to stay relatively safe while checking, collecting guaranteed dmg and applying oki on knockdown.
That also involves finishing the string sometimes to mess with your opponent and make him afraid to press -> free mental frames with some calculated risk:D

A really good character to play rock-paper-scissors with your opponent as her tools are easy to understand and well laid-out. Low execution barrier as well. At the same time, you have to be good at basic Tekken to play her effectively.

Basically, you can transition into other chars from her and carry over whatever she taught you.


It's also easy to lock them down with db4 for +4 on hit into offense.
 
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Practice. I got excellent at tekken 7 over a year by just grinding every day to the point if being emperor rank.

Honestly it was cool to do but a lot of effort and even then I still wasn't good enough to be King or God ranked.

Tekken in particular is just a hard game to learn as the movesets are vast and really your not just learning your characters frame data but also your opponents to establish what's safe, where you should space your character etc.

That's why great players can pick any charcater and just stomp ... since they know the frame data and have all the fundamentals down.
 
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iamtheoneneo said:
Practice. I got excellent at tekken 7 over a year by just grinding every day to the point if being emperor rank.

Honestly it was cool to do but a lot of effort and even then I still wasn't good enough to be King or God ranked.
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Do you still play or has all the effort worn you down?

@Amatsubu thanks for that, I'm going to give her a try tonight.
 
Its a shame you dont like SFV as GiegsGym guide is ment to be good for learning -

v/giefsgym - stReetfighter

r/StreetFighter: Home of Street Fighter on reddit, a place to collect Street Fighter content from everywhere on the internet Some discord links too …
www.reddit.com www.reddit.com
 
I wouldn't even worry about rank, with the current distribution ranks are rather meaningless with the exception of God ranks, I played people at "higher" ranks who couldn't break throws on reaction or backdash cancel properly.

Just play rank but don't fixate on it too much.

It also depends on the character, some characters carry pretty far into ranks, some of them got nerfed and immediately dropped by the playerbase:p
 
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I haven't played fighting games in a long time (last one I actively played was SFIV), but I've followed the FGC loosely for 10+ years and watch EVO and some other major tournaments.

I'd say the fundamentals to master, which should transfer to being competent at most fighting games, would include:

  1. Normals - Be familiar with all your normal attacks, know which ones are the strongest (long reach + fast = best, plus if combo-able into special moves or other normals that in turn combo into specials)
  2. Spacing - Know the exact range where your strongest normals will just about hit by the tip of the hitbox, and also will make your opponent's attacks whiff. You will ultimately need to be at least vaguely familiar with every other character's normals to stay out their range, but you can focus on getting your own ranges first into muscle memory.
  3. Invincibility - Know what special moves or even general movement mechanics (e.g. backdashing) give you invincibility. If someone throws out a normal but you have a move with 3 frames of invincibility, you could hit them with your attack and stuff their attempt, or you could backdash to escape a throw attempt etc.
 
Amatsubu said:
I can give you advice on Tekken but it takes time and you have to take it slow.

Conbos are actually the least important thing, just learn a basic one off your main launchers to not leave dmg on the table. It'll work for now and it's the easiest thing to optimise later on.

Pick a character and learn their top 10 moves, the safer the better (under -10f on block is safe) and slowly learn to apply them in combat.

The most important thing is learning when and when not to attack. A lot of beginners actually kill themselves because they can't stop pressing and doing launch punishable moves randomly.
Click to expand...

This is a really good post, thank you, but too much to absorb in one go. I've started taking it slowly and yesterday hung back rather than going "all in" all the time. I hung back, waited for the opponent to strike and then struck when they did. It worked most of the time, and now my main [Josie] is nearly yellow, maybe I'll be able to get her there tonight since I'm only one rank away from Warrior. I also started using Rage Art which I never did before.

What I also noticed is that really applying and getting to know just 1-2 combos was very effective, and then just getting the timing right on those one or two. Also if things aren't going how you expect, observe for a bit.

With regard to Mortal Kombat, that's also going well, currently moving into medium difficulty from easy.
 
Smeghead said:
I haven't played fighting games in a long time (last one I actively played was SFIV), but I've followed the FGC loosely for 10+ years and watch EVO and some other major tournaments.

I'd say the fundamentals to master, which should transfer to being competent at most fighting games, would include:

  1. Normals - Be familiar with all your normal attacks, know which ones are the strongest (long reach + fast = best, plus if combo-able into special moves or other normals that in turn combo into specials)
  2. Spacing - Know the exact range where your strongest normals will just about hit by the tip of the hitbox, and also will make your opponent's attacks whiff. You will ultimately need to be at least vaguely familiar with every other character's normals to stay out their range, but you can focus on getting your own ranges first into muscle memory.
  3. Invincibility - Know what special moves or even general movement mechanics (e.g. backdashing) give you invincibility. If someone throws out a normal but you have a move with 3 frames of invincibility, you could hit them with your attack and stuff their attempt, or you could backdash to escape a throw attempt etc.
Click to expand...

This, build strong basics. Most important post imo.

One point I will also add is learn to know when its your turn. Don't just attack assuming your attack will beat or interupt your opponents. Moves will be plus or negative on block. If you know their move is plug then keep block. If you know its negative then it can be your turn providing you have a move thats quick enough and your reactions are quick enough. There will also be general game mechanics that disctate whos turn it is but this will vary from game to game.
 
Lysander said:
This is a really good post, thank you, but too much to absorb in one go. I've started taking it slowly and yesterday hung back rather than going "all in" all the time. I hung back, waited for the opponent to strike and then struck when they did. It worked most of the time, and now my main [Josie] is nearly yellow, maybe I'll be able to get her there tonight since I'm only one rank away from Warrior. I also started using Rage Art which I never did before.

What I also noticed is that really applying and getting to know just 1-2 combos was very effective, and then just getting the timing right on those one or two. Also if things aren't going how you expect, observe for a bit.

With regard to Mortal Kombat, that's also going well, currently moving into medium difficulty from easy.
Click to expand...

No worries, you're already on the right track:) I tried to make it as comprehensive as possible while being decently brief but it can be overwhelming indeed.

Josie is a decent character, I more or less know how to play her so I can give some tips and list her best moves but it'd be better to look up a YT tutorial on her instead of getting through another wall of text:P That'll help you a great deal in understanding what's what and how to apply it.


Just a couple more general tips: Try to mix up your patterns and timing a bit to be less predictable and use low pokes to open up your opponent for launchers when they start ducking (just don't overdo it).

Remember about that single jab, since yellow ranks have little idea about frames, they'll often attack at minus and eat your jab, at which point you'll be +8 doing whatever you want. You can do the same with df1, which for Josie is standing 3 since it's 13f startup. Remember, every single jab on hit is YOUR turn. Same with df1 in most cases. Use those turns, just don't get too predictable.

Those two moves alone will also give you some insight into frames when you don't know the exact ones. You block something, check with a jab, opponent blocked = it's safe on block etc.
Opponent hit = he either mashed at - frames or the moves is at least -10. Simple strats to extract a bit of knowledge. Just mix up your jabs with your fastest mid to not get easily ducked.

Though, a single jab also has this great property of being fast enough that even if you get ducked you'll recover quick enough to not eat a ws move in most cases. Best move in the game:D
 
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