Source Code Ownership - Advice Needed

suarve · 15 Dec 2009 at 19:57

Hi,

Just wanna know what people's opinions on this are, as I've never come across this.

Have just finished an ecommerce website for a client. They basically don't want to pay for extra features to be added to their site, as they believe this was included in the original cost (even though it wasn't - we both have a huge document saying what the site will do, won't do, was included etc.) they want things like twitter feeds and extra payment gateways adding in which I would charge any normal client a nourly rate for.

The huge document isn't a contract, it's simply a detailed list of deliverables - no where does it mention me handing source code over (she wants the photoshop source files to the design aswell).

Anyway, to cut a long story short they think I'm charging them twice - if they were very quick updates I'd probably just do it to keep the peace, but adding in extra features and functionality takes time.

They apparently have a 'programmer friend' who they want to use to keep costs down - s today the client has requested their ftp/db details.

Now, apart from the huge security risk this brings, the possibility she could bugger up her whole site, the fact her myterious friend could totally mess up the site (thus reflecting badly on ourselves) where do I stand. Also the site is totally bespoke and uses no system like magneto or similar.

Have also just had a quick read of tsohosts (the company the site is hosted with) terms and conditions. We have a number of sites hosted here all under one clustered hosting account. There's nothing to say this 'friend' (who I have no knowledge of) couldn't break tsohosts terms, leading to us getting our whole account closed/suspended - not good. This is the most worrying bit, as we have quite a few sites hosted with tsohost.

Would like to know people's opinions on this as it's the first time I've really come across a situation like this.

Another thing which seems odd is that she has just emailed me asking the following (esp. considering her friend is a programmer):

She wants the database login details (surely any programmer would look in my database class or some type of database include on each page)
She wants me to restore access to all folders - I've used mod rewrite to generate seo friendlt urls and disbaled directory indexes on certain folders for security - surely a programmer would know this.

Have been doijng a little reading and it appears that as no formal contract was signed and the site bespoke, we are granting a license for the client to use our software. The client can buy rights to the source though and/or we could approve all scripts/changes to the site.

Thanks

suarve · 15 Dec 2009 at 20:12

That's one of the otehr things. This is quite a big site that has been in development over a number of months - as the client had some very very specific requirements for quite a niche product, everything is bespoke.

suarve · 15 Dec 2009 at 20:50

The code isn't version controlled unfortunately - as I really didn't think other would be viewing it. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem handing it over if In have to. However, some of the features and (imo of course) overly complicated shipping rules they had were a total pain in ass to do - so in this respect are high in terms of originality.

I still don't like the idea of giving someone who I don't know or trust (the client's friend) access to a hosting account - even though its only ftp they could still in theory break the terms and totally bugger up our whole hosting account - seems like an unecessary risk to be taking.

I have been getting ficticious quotes from a few of the bigger web companies - where i asked about source code. Only was willing to hand the whole thing over after completion and payment - but did specify that I would have to host the site elsewhere if i wanted to make changes to the source code myself as they have a very strict inhouse script security policy (they did offer to vet any changes I made for £65 per hour though

).

Tbh, if I had read that last week I would laugh, but can understand why they are being a bit tight fisted now.

suarve · 15 Dec 2009 at 21:10

yes, that's a good point about word of mouth - but it's not like I'm being anal for the sake of it.

I've just come across a possibly other valid point. If you have used custom libraries then you can request a settle before this handing this over (if at all). In my case I used several classes I've developed myself over a a couple of years.

_TubbZ_ said:
If whats included is documented and they agreed to that initially and have paid for it i guess you could argue there was an informal/verbal contract which they agreed to as they were willing for the design to go ahead and pay for it.....................

.

I don't they're trying to screw us over, from the off they set a solid figure for their website budget and told me they can't spend a penny more.

This was all fine (and is very common tbh), but it's when they started to ask for extra features that it started to get messy. To help them out initially I even added a couple of small features not listed on the original brief as they had apparently 'forgot to mention this'. The next time they called up asking for additional features I had no choice but to say we'll charge them by the hour for these updates (again, doing them a favour as it worked out slightly cheaper for client).

In this respect I've definately leant my lesson about doing such favours. from now on I'll be sticking exactly to what was discussed and doing no more or less. It's kind of sad things have to be this way, but when you get the odd bad client it's easier in the long run.

suarve · 15 Dec 2009 at 23:28

Nice point. Like the analogy

suarve · 16 Dec 2009 at 10:36

Nope not fully paid yet, have just mentioned this in an email too.

suarve · 16 Jan 2010 at 19:45

Just to update you a few months on, this is ongoing

She says she needs the full source to do seo (even though her admin arae she can change meta tags, h1 tags, content, breadcrumb structure, keywords, page titles etc.) - she says the current seo isn't working. Sent her some examples of a very competitive phrase that got 90,500 searches last month too, where she is currently sitting in positon 12. Her site is ace for geographic keywords too, always being on page 1. I search for partocular products (some pretty vague too) and they always appear on page 1, 2 or 3. For the 5 months the site has been live 72% of all her traffic is coming from search engines - with ~4k hits each month - imo that's prett good and proves the current seo must be doing something. I wanted to do some more offiste stuff and adwords, but she literally doesn;t want to pay for anything.

I mentioned the whole source code ownership issue to her aswell and sais she could buy the full source code. She replied asking how much.

Now considoring the site cost circa £2400 in total, what do think would be a reasonable price. My mate who works at another web company reckons around 40-50 of the full price. Does this sound normal?

Thanks